G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Hello all. I am looking for information on Lance Corporal John Murtagh. He was born Dublin 1876. We believe he served in India. He was a reservist by the time WW1 came about so I am not sure how he served , if he did in the Great War. I apologise if this is the wrong forum for this question but we cant seem to find any information on his military career if it's still available at all and not lost like many others. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 13 minutes ago, G O Brien said: Hello all. I am looking for information on Lance Corporal John Murtagh. He was born Dublin 1876. We believe he served in India. He was a reservist by the time WW1 came about so I am not sure how he served , if he did in the Great War. I apologise if this is the wrong forum for this question but we cant seem to find any information on his military career if it's still available at all and not lost like many others. Kind Regards. Do you know anything about his regiment or service number ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Thanks Craig, I know it's crazy to ask this question without that information, but no. His DOB is sept 19th 1876. Dublin. Death Aug 27th 1943. Dublin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Where is he in the Census? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 21 minutes ago, G O Brien said: Thanks Craig, I know it's crazy to ask this question without that information, but no. His DOB is sept 19th 1876. Dublin. Death Aug 27th 1943. Dublin. What where the names of his immediate family ? Do you know what his civilian employment was ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 He was at 6 Smithfield Avenue in 1911. Can't find him in the 1901 Census we assumed he was away at service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Where was he born and do you have an image of him, or the info from his medals? All these questions help us to find him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Craig his wife was Ellen Murtagh and he loved with his Inlaws the Doyle family in 1911. We know he worked for Elverys sporting goods in O'Connell St, Dublin and have heard the army sometimes found ex soldiers jobs like that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 So, this would be him in 1911 as a Railway Crane man. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Smithfield_Avenue/21889/ Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 MuseumTom, Unfortunately No. Shame really but we are lost here. His Grandson, (my uncle) told me John had hard copies of the records and medals also. Shamefully they have been lost since his death in 1943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 It might be worth trying the Irish Railway Archive and see if they have anything. http://irishrailarchives.ie/archives/genealogy/ Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 John was the brother in law. He was the brother on law. He is a porter and army reservist on the census. Not a railway crane operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 For what it is worth. It may not be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 1 minute ago, G O Brien said: John was the brother in law. He was the brother on law. He is a porter and army reservist on the census. Not a railway crane operator. John Murtagh was a craneman on the 1911 census - John Jordan was a reservist/porter. Jordan John 21 Male Nephew Roman Catholic Dublin City Porter and Army Reservist Read and write - Married - - - - Murtagh Ellen 34 Female sister Roman Catholic Dublin City Railway Clerk Read and write - Single - - - - Murtagh John 35 Male brother-in-law Roman Catholic Dublin City Railway Craneman Read and write Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 I have attached the copy of the census. Regards 5 minutes ago, museumtom said: For what it is worth. It may not be him. Great picture it would be nice to think that's John alright thank you kindly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 No bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Hmm, interesting. So, taking the original census over the transcription (first time I think I've seen any error in the Irish transcription). A man would normally enlist at age 18 - so 1894. Service was for 12 years, so he was ordinarily time expired by 1908. A man could extend the reserve service by 4 years so, to 1912. This would suggest he was out of the army in 1912 but he may have re-enlisted later for the war. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Thank you craig for the insight I wasn't aware of those details. I haven't heard of him being in the war. I will keep looking I have tried find my past, ancestry and roots. Its hard to pin down as we know so little of his career unfortunately. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 (edited) Most commonly (but not exclusively) service in India suggests a cavalry regiment, artillery brigade or infantry battalion, as statistically and proportionately more men from those three arms served there. Is it likely he had prior experience of working with horses? It’s not by any means a guarantee, but if men had such experience they might be steered by a good recruiter into those arms that relied heavily on horses. If infantry is more likely then as a Dublin man a first check should be made with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, although again that’s not a definite, and he might have served with any regiment, including Scottish and English ones. Assuming that it was an Irish regiment his likely breakdown of service of 7-initial years of full-time service and 5-years with the reserve under obligation for call-out in a national emergency, also has some bearing. During the reserve portion of his engagement he would have been required to report annually to his nearest regimental depot for a cursory period of briefing and minimal training, in return for which he received an annual cash stipend, so the vast majority of men did take the trouble to go along and keep their recorded home address up-to-date. I would suggest some research with the Railway Company archives and a focus on Royal Dublin Fusiliers records as an initial course to take. Edited 21 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 17 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Most commonly (but not exclusively) service in India suggests a cavalry regiment, artillery brigade or infantry battalion, as statistically and proportionately more men from those three arms served there. Is it likely he had prior experience of working with horses? It’s not by any means a guarantee, but if men had such experience they might be steered by a good recruiter into those arms that relied heavily on horses. If infantry is more likely then as a Dublin man a first check should be made with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, although again that’s not a definite, and he might have served with any regiment, including Scottish and English ones. Assuming that it was an Irish regiment his likely breakdown of service of 7-initial years of full-time service and 5-years with the reserve under obligation for call-out in a national emergency, also has some bearing. During the reserve portion of his engagement he would have been required to report annually to his nearest regimental depot for a cursory period of briefing and minimal training, in return for which he received an annual cash stipend, so the vast majority of men did take the trouble to go along and keep their recorded home address up-to-date. I would suggest some research with the Railway Company archives and a focus on Royal Dublin Fusiliers records as an initial course to take. Thanks very much Frogsmile for the very detailed response. Not sure about the horses I will look into that. Also I thought the same on the Dublin regiments, although I had got a great great uncle from Dublin too and he was placed in the Duke of Wellingtons West riding regiment, so that has me thinking he could have been in any regiment. But I appreciate the reply fair play. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 2 minutes ago, G O Brien said: Thanks very much Frogsmile for the very detailed response. Not sure about the horses I will look into that. Also I thought the same on the Dublin regiments, although I had got a great great uncle from Dublin too and he was placed in the Duke of Wellingtons West riding regiment, so that has me thinking he could have been in any regiment. But I appreciate the reply fair play. Regards. There are some cracking genealogical detectives in this forum and I’ll be very surprised if they’re not able to help you get some granularity with your efforts to track down his service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 John and Ellen's marriage - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/68d4081962995?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Djohn%26namel%3Dmurtagh%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D1909%26yyto%3D1911%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddPfrom%3D%26mmPfrom%3D%26yyPfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26ddPto%3D%26mmPto%3D%26yyPto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26locationP%3D%26keywordb%3D%26keywordm%3D%26keywordd%3D%26keywordp%3D%26event%3DM%26district%3D%26submit%3DSearch In 1910 he is listed as a porter so he was out of the active military by that point - which ties in with the suspected service prior to that point. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaretnolan Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Would these be his three children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 1 minute ago, Margaretnolan said: Would these be his three children? Looks like it - the 1917 one shows him still as a porter, so if he was back in the military it's not mentioned.. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G O Brien Posted 21 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Frogsmile, Craig and Margaret, thank you greatly and yes they are John's kids, William being my Grandfather. We only found out about Maureen last week would you believe as we tried trace John's Military records. And as you said craig it doesn't mention the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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