Mortars

[kelly]

Hi all

 

Can anyone confirm the use of mortars by the Turkish army on day 1, 25th April

 

Regards

 

Garry

[michaeldr]

Garry,

 

Can you narrow this down a bit please

Which beach have you in mind here?

 

regards

Michael

[kelly]

Hi, all beaches

 

Regards

[michaeldr]

I don't think that I have come across a ref to Infantry Mortars being used on the beaches on 25th April.

Both sides used Infantry Mortars later on, but I cannot pinpoint a date when they first appeared on the battlefield

Heavy Mortars were included in the armoury of the Straits defences and they also appear on the main battlefield's OoB later in the year (certainly in August, but possibly earlier).

Eg: Kidney Hill (on KTS) to the allies, was Havan Tepe to the Turks, suggesting they probably used one there, though which type is not clear

https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/images/marmutak/havantepe/3_mini.jpg

[michaeldr]

Some Australian input is required at this point, as I have been wondering when Mortar Ridge, Anzac, received that name

It was certainly a place involved in the very early fighting, but how significant is the name?

 

[alantwo]

Hi Michael

 

I'm not sure how much this will help but the earliest references I found to 'trench mortars' and Mortar Ridge' in the artillery war diaries is as follows:

 

11th May, both 4th and 9th Batteries Australian Field Artillery fired on trench mortars.

 

On the morning of 21st June a gun emplacement was fired on at Mortar Ridge by both 5th Battery AFA and 7th Indian Mountain Brigade.

 

Mortar Ridge as a locality was authorized for general use in Force Order No.28 dated 7th November, though clearly it was being used before then. The map reference is given as 80 X5-6 to N9 and whilst the former seems about right, the latter reference seems to be across a Dere and half way up Battleship Hill.

 

Anyway, I hope that helps.

 

Regards

Alan

[michaeldr]

Alan,

 

Great to hear from you again and thanks for that clarification

 

Keep well

and best regards

Michael

[kelly]

6 hours ago, alantwo said:

Hi Michael

 

I'm not sure how much this will help but the earliest references I found to 'trench mortars' and Mortar Ridge' in the artillery war diaries is as follows:

 

11th May, both 4th and 9th Batteries Australian Field Artillery fired on trench mortars.

 

On the morning of 21st June a gun emplacement was fired on at Mortar Ridge by both 5th Battery AFA and 7th Indian Mountain Brigade.

 

Mortar Ridge as a locality was authorized for general use in Force Order No.28 dated 7th November, though clearly it was being used before then. The map reference is given as 80 X5-6 to N9 and whilst the former seems about right, the latter reference seems to be across a Dere and half way up Battleship Hill.

 

Anyway, I hope that helps.

 

Regards

Alan

Alan

Many thanks for your response

I have a bit of a fixation with X beach and can't understand why a mortar was not used by the Turks (thankfully) 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Mate,

 

Sorry but I also can't find any reference to Ottoman Mortars at that early stage at Anzac or Helles?

 

I know that after the landing they drew in numbers of what ever they could find to help the lack of firepower within the Ottoman Army, many very old HE weapons where they still had ammo were among these?

 

even Older type Siege mortars?

 

Mortars as we know them didn't arrive on the battlefield till much later, and both sides use what ever they could find, even the so called  Jap Mortars

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[alantwo]

Kelly

 

Having looked at the allied batteries at Helles, the earliest reference I found was in June August when 368th Battery fired on a mortar in H12. As mentioned by Michael and Steve they don’t appear early in the campaign, September seems to be the month when Turkish mortars became more prevalent and were fired on by the artillery on this front.

 

Regards

Alan

 

Edited 30 September , 2020 by alantwo
Revised month

[kelly]

Hi Alan, grateful for your input, I guess my grandad was one of the lucky ones landing at X beach before mortars were used

 

[Guest]

On 29/09/2020 at 08:49, stevebecker said:

 

 

Mortars as we know them didn't arrive on the battlefield till much later, and both sides use what ever they could find, even the so called  Jap Mortars

 

Interesting that you refer to the Japanese mortars being used by the Allies.  The following extract from the 28th Bn unit history thus:

 

Two other types of weapons may be mentioned here. One used by us and the other by the enemy. The first was a Japanese mortar which fired a 50 lb. bomb having a good range and a large bursting charge. This had been used by our ally during the Russo-Japanese War. The Battalion made its acquaintance when the move to Russell's Top took place, in December, but unfortunately the ammunition was too scarce to permit of any lasting benefit being derived, although the few rounds that were fired proved their destructive effect on the opposing trenches. 

 

The other one used by the Ottomans should be well known to GWF members: the broomstick bomb.

Edited 20 August , 2021 by Guest

[Keith_history_buff]

I saw the following recently, and was reminded of the use of Japanese mortars against the Turks at Gallipoli.

Image with AWM ref and also available via wikimedia commons
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P01850.004

Article mentioning the presentation of a Japanese mortar to the city of Wellington in 1917, via the excellent "Gallipoli, 1915" group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10159512783401686&id=180766336685
 

[Guest]

Mate,

I am afraid the Ottomans don't appear to have used motors to any degree during the war, while at some time in 1917 they came into service, but soon disappeared?

Minewafers often used by the Germans don't seam to have been used by the Ottomans?

They did built there own from older weapons, by reboring and converision, but these failed and were quickly dropped.

Some thing I said some time ago

British Intell report dated 30 June 1917 gives us these details;

101 to 103 TMB each 6x mortars (formed the 1st Heavy TM Regt)

Old Mantelli guns rebored to 95mm

range about 775 metres (237 yards) this appears out of wack so the range maybe incorrect?

106 and 107 TMB each 4x mortars

each 155mm

range about 600 metres (648 yards)

another report gives 106 TMB had 95mm mortars?

The British show these batteries around June 1917 but they disappear from the British records later in 1917 (after 3rd Gaza) so I don't know what happened to them?

Turks say Humbara to mortars. Hüseyin Hüsnü Erkilet mentions in his book Yıldırım 2002 edditon p.363 the Humbara batteries as follows according to a report of Cevad Bey ( Col. Gen. Çobanlı) C of 8th Army dated Dec. 20th 1917.
103rd, 104th, 105th, 106th, 113th, 115th, 116th
Cevad Bey mentions the number of guns that lost in the 2nd chapter of his report
103rd 4 guns, 104th 4 guns, 106th 6 guns, 113rd 4 guns, 115 th 1 gun, 116th 4 guns

another bloke found

I think I know what the 95mm guns made from old guns were. They were smooth bore short range fortress guns designed to fire canister shot
(think - very large shotgun). There were a number of these captured at Beersheba

Herr Jaeger, of "German Artillery of World War One" fame identified the 1872 barrel of the Mt Morgan gun as coming from a 9cm (9.15cm actual) Krupp C/64 field gun.

S.B

Edited 20 August , 2021 by stevebecker