Location of Hospital

[tootrock]

I am researching a man who, according to his Casualty Form, was admitted to the 8th Staty (Stationary?) Hospital in Rouen, where he died.

According to the War Diary of the 8th Stationary Hospital at that time (October/November 1917) it was based in Wimereux, which is where he is buried.

Can anyone explain this discrepancy?

During the same research I have looked at the War Diary of the 20 Ambulance Train, which called at RAILHOEK on its way to Wimereux.

Can anyone locate where this might be?

Martin

[TEW]

Going by TLLT they either meant 8th GH or it's a poorly written 6th SH?

 

RAILHOEK. I see this in the diary,  it's a five hour journey from Strazeele to Railhoek then 7 & a half from there to Wimereux. Not much to go on as you sometimes see short distances taking a long time and vice verse. Depends on how well the network was running, detours and waiting in sidings etc.

 

One would think the direct route would be via Hazebrouck, St. Omer and continue west. However, they may have had to complete an ardour detour. Going by the hoek element I wonder off they had to go northwards to Railhoek.

TEW

[TEW]

I see another journey 23/11/17. A half hour journey from Remy Siding to Railhoek. Can't be too far away from Poperinghe.

If the tables are anything to go by they are loading reasonable numbers of men at Railhoek but not making it a frequent stop. Wonder why it's not come up before as a medical/rail location.

TEW

 

Corruption of Hilhoek fits the area.

Edited 11 September , 2020 by TEW

[tootrock]

I have recently discovered this man was my wife’s great Uncle, 2796 Pte Ernest Alfred Clarke, 39th Battalion A.I.F.

I thought it might be interesting to follow his progress from battlefield to hospital via his casualty form and the War Diaries of the units mentioned, but his progress is very unclear.

He was wounded, presumably in the action by the 39th Battalion A.I.F in the Augustus Wood/Waterfields area Sheet 28.D.10.d and Sheet 28.D.17.b.

Next, he is admitted to the 11 Australian Field Ambulance which is located at Red Farm, near Poperinghe, 28.G.5.d.7.5

Then he is transferred to No.3 C.C.S., based at Grevillers in France, and transferred by 20 Ambulance Train to Wimereux, via Railhoek. All this took place on the 12th and 13th of October 1917. He died of his wounds on 10 November 1917.

The casualty card has been typed, so all the entries are clear, as is the word Rouen.

Rouen also appears twice on his typed Field Service card (Army Form B 2090A)

Is this a likely series of events or has there been confusion in the office when the cards were typed up, presumably at a later date.

 

Martin

[TEW]

Well, I've looked at the casualty form and it is pretty clear. Seems wrong to be sent from Red Farm near Poperinghe to Grevillers then to Rouen via Railhoek near Poperinghe. Nothing to say how he was evacuated from Red Farm to Grevilliers, some 60 miles as the crow flies.

 

However, the 11th AFA could only evacuate according to plan so at present I'd have to assume that route was the correct one.

 

Ah, checking things while posting!

 

3 CCS was at Grevillers, their diary has evacuations on 13th by 2AT not 20AT. 29CCS diary confirms 2AT. This makes more sense than the Strazeele - Railhoek - Wimereux journey taken by 20 AT, IE. nowhere near Grevillers.

 

So, a typo has crept in somehow, perhaps also for the hospital number or GH became SH?

 

Diary for 2AT should confirm a journey from Grevillers to Rouen hopefully.

TEW

[tootrock]

I wonder if the "typo" was regarding the CCS rather than the Ambulance Train. No. 32 CCS was based at Brandhoek from July - December 1917, which is very close to Red Farm.

Martin

[TEW]

As you mention it. Based on statistics IE. the numbers of men admitted to the CCS on 13/10/17 leads me the idea that it's more likely to be 3 Australian CCS than plain 3 CCS.

 

3 ACCS.

Sick - 125

Wounded - 324

 

3 CCS

Sick - 12

Wounded 4

 

Both at Grevillers.

 

Diary for 2AT should be able to confirm the journey's end at Rouen. Relevant ADMS/DDMS should confirm the CCSs that were taking in for the 39th Bn. AIF.

 

Off hand I don't know the division or corps at the time.

 

If 2AT has been rendered as 20AT and 8 GH as 8 SH (possibly) then 32 CCS is another option that makes more sense then sending wounded down to Grevillers.

TEW

[frev]

11 hours ago, tootrock said:

I have recently discovered this man was my wife’s great Uncle, 2796 Pte Ernest Alfred Clarke, 39th Battalion A.I.F.

I thought it might be interesting to follow his progress from battlefield to hospital via his casualty form and the War Diaries of the units mentioned, but his progress is very unclear.

He was wounded, presumably in the action by the 39th Battalion A.I.F in the Augustus Wood/Waterfields area Sheet 28.D.10.d and Sheet 28.D.17.b.

Next, he is admitted to the 11 Australian Field Ambulance which is located at Red Farm, near Poperinghe, 28.G.5.d.7.5

Then he is transferred to No.3 C.C.S., based at Grevillers in France, and transferred by 20 Ambulance Train to Wimereux, via Railhoek. All this took place on the 12th and 13th of October 1917. He died of his wounds on 10 November 1917.

The casualty card has been typed, so all the entries are clear, as is the word Rouen.

Rouen also appears twice on his typed Field Service card (Army Form B 2090A)

Is this a likely series of events or has there been confusion in the office when the cards were typed up, presumably at a later date.

 

Martin

 

Hi Martin

The way I read your man’s details:

 

He wasn’t actually with his battalion at the time of his wounding, but was attached for duty with the 10^th Machine Gun Coy on the 25/9/1917 [along with 31 other ranks (attached) from battalions of the 10^th Bde] – he was still with them at Potijze when wounded in action on the 12/10/17 during the unsuccessful attack [5.25am Zero hour] which resulted in the loss of 3 guns and 30 casualties.  He was listed among the missing that day [10 MGC diary]:

Missing No.2796 Pte E.A. CLERK [sic]

 

Transferred through the hospital system – 11^th Aus Fld Amb (Red Farm) – 3^rd Aus CCS (p.26 of his SR) which was based at Nine Elms (sheet 27 L10 B3.5, near Poperinge) – Hosp Tn 20 – 8^th Stationary Hospital, Wimereux where he died (and was buried)

[Rouen pretty much had to be the error of a confused Clerk, who wasn't aware of where 8SH was at the time!]

 

Cheers, Frev

[tootrock]

Thanks both for all the information - I have a much clearer picture now of what happened to him. One wonders how accurate other men's records are!

I attach a photo of Ernest Clarke found in an album of old family photographs - to think that 10 days ago I was unaware that he had ever existed!

Martin

Edited 12 September , 2020 by tootrock

[TEW]

Apologies for nearly throwing things off kilter. I'll blame late night posting!

 

3rd ACCS left Grevillers 20th July. Nine Elms quite correct. The figures I gave are correct for 13/10/17.

 

I checked 32CCS before logging in and they shut down 5/10/17 anyway.

TEW

[tootrock]

Re-visiting this.

Further evidence of a clerical error above is that the War Diary of the No. 8 General Hospital in Rouen shows very few deaths. In fact they are so rare that any individuals who die are named and details given, and Ernest Clarke is not mentioned, confirming that he was not there.

Martin

[tootrock]

In the file for Ernest Alfred Clarke is a card regarding pensions (attached). From this it seems that 15/- was to be paid to both his father and his mother, to commence in each case on 18 January 1918. What does the abbreviation "p.f." stand for, and how long might this pension have been paid?

Martin

Courtesy National Archives of Australia

[WhiteStarLine]

Martin, per fortnight, commencing 14 Jan 1918.

 

The payment amount, calculation and time payable depended on the type of pension and these are nicely summarised on the last page of the Form - Claim for War Pension, post 1916 at https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/1249809/

[tootrock]

Thanks very much for that.

Martin