Soldier of the East Surrey Regiment?

[Half Pint]

Hello.

Apologies for the poor photo quality of the attached pictures.

* I am trying to determine which regiment is represented by the cap badge. *

The photo is from our grandmother's album, and her brother died in 1916. Unfortunately, the photo bears no caption, so I am not certain if this was Arthur.

 

Info from the CWGC: 

- Name:   DUNFORD
- Initials:  A C [Arthur Charles]
- Nationality:  United Kingdom
- Rank:  Private
- Regiment:  East Surrey Regiment
- Unit Text:  12th Bn.
- Date of Death:  18/09/1916
- Service No:  15819
- Casualty Type:  Commonwealth War Dead
- Grave/Memorial Reference:  IV. E. 4.
- Cemetery:  HEILLY STATION CEMETERY, MERICOURT-L'ABBE
... many thanks in advance for any assistance offered.
regards,
Alison

[FROGSMILE]

Yes, the cap badge and shoulder title are commensurate with the East Surrey Regiment.  He looks very young and diminutive (notice short length of his visible shoulder strap) and might not have declared his true age unless he was a prewar entrant.

Edited 5 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Half Pint]

Thank you for your reply and the dandy photograph of the East Surrey cap badge, Frogsmile.

If this was our Arthur Charles Dunford, he was 19 years old when he signed up in 1915. He was 5ft. 4in. tall according to his service record. Perhaps his size accounts for the relative youth shown in the photograph.

cheers

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Half Pint said:

Thank you for your reply and the dandy photograph of the East Surrey cap badge, Frogsmile.

If this was our Arthur Charles Dunford, he was 19 years old when he signed up in 1915. He was 5ft. 4in. tall according to his service record. Perhaps his size accounts for the relative youth shown in the photograph.

cheers

 
I can confirm that he’s definitely wearing the insignia of the East Surrey’s.  He also wears the 1916 pattern soft cap issued commencing in that year.  Another interesting aspect is that he’s wearing collar badges when it was not pan-Army regulation to do so.  Regulars never did, but some Territorial and war-raised ‘Service’ battalions did as a distinction usually sanctioned by idiosyncratic commanding officers.  It might help to narrow down his precise battalion.

Edited 5 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Half Pint]

I appreciate this kind of detail, too, thank you. I thought the shape or form of the cap was different, but had no idea why.

 

These bits will make their way into Arthur's biographical sketch in the Dunford family history, for which I thank you.

 

According to his service record, Arthur Charles Dunford was posted to the 11th East Surrey.

 

cheers

[Alan24]

35 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 
 Another interesting aspect is that he’s wearing collar badges when it was not pan-Army regulation to do so.  

I believe that the 12th East Surrey Regt (Bermondsey) did wear collar dogs.

This photo is from 122 TMB in France and shows two ESR men with collar dogs.

The other two men being from 18 KRRC and 11 R West Kent.

Together with 15 Hants, the 4 battalions made up 122 Infantry Brigade. 

 

[FROGSMILE]

Brilliant Alan, I have no doubt that you have identified the unit in the OP’s photo.  The special collar badges of the 12th (Bermondsey) Battalion are identifiable despite the blurred nature of the photo.

Edited 6 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[EastSurrey]

On 05/09/2020 at 19:23, Half Pint said:

I appreciate this kind of detail, too, thank you. I thought the shape or form of the cap was different, but had no idea why.

 

These bits will make their way into Arthur's biographical sketch in the Dunford family history, for which I thank you.

 

According to his service record, Arthur Charles Dunford was posted to the 11th East Surrey.

 

cheers

11th East Surrey, raised as a New Army battalion in November 1914, became a training battalion, sending drafts to the BEF. 1.9.1916 it was amalgamated with 9th Queen's to form 21st Training Reserve battalion.

Michael

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, EastSurrey said:

11th East Surrey, raised as a New Army battalion in November 1914, became a training battalion, sending drafts to the BEF. 1.9.1916 it was amalgamated with 9th Queen's to form 21st Training Reserve battalion.

Michael

He must have moved across from 11th to 12th at some point.

Edited 7 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[clk]

Hi Alison,

 

Arthur has some surviving service papers on Findmypast under the service number of G/15819 (link). They should also be available on Ancestry. They show that he was working as a van porter when he joined up (aged 19 years an 2 months old) on 11.11.1915. It shows that he initially served (at home) with the 11th Bn, before being posted to the 12th Bn on 8.1.1916, and being posted overseas with them to the British Expeditionary Force on 1.5.1916. He subsequently seems to have been wounded and passed part way back through the evacuation chain to 36 Casualty Clearing Station where he sadly passed away on 18.9.1916. If you wanted to add more context to his overseas service as well as the 12th Bn war diary (previously linked) it might be worth getting a copy of the 122 Infantry Brigade Headquarters, and the 41 Division Headquarters General Staff diaries, as 'higher level' diaries often contain things such as orders. reports on operations, and maps that aren't in the Bn diary. They are currently available as free downloads from the National Archives after registration. Their search page is here. None of the diaries are likely to mention Arthur specifically by name though.

 

 

Images sourced from Findmypast

 

Before he died Arthur made a 'soldiers' will', a low resolution B&W scan of which is available (£1.50) from here. It may well though consist of a very few words. His Soldiers' Effects record shows that his mother (Charlotte) was named as his his sole legatee. The Effects record also notes his father as 'Henry J'. Do those parent details fit with what you know?

 

If you don't have one it looks like British War Graves would be able to provide you a digital image of his resting place, on a free of charge basis.

 

Good luck with you research.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 September , 2020 by clk

[FROGSMILE]

He seems then to have been a casualty of the 1916 Somme battles.

[Alan24]

23 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

He seems then to have been a casualty of the 1916 Somme battles.

Probably wounded on 15 Sept 1916, The 122 Brigade action in Battle of Flers–Courcelette.

36 CCS were at the Heilly Railhead

 

 

Edited 8 September , 2020 by Alan24

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, Alan24 said:

Probably wounded on 15 Sept 1916, The 122 Brigade action in Battle of Flers–Courcelette.

36 CCS were at the Heilly Railhead

 

 

Yes, that certainly fits the timeline, Alan.