1.5 inch TM 'Toffee Apple'

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Evening all. Can anyone throw light on the 1.5 inch variation on the 2 inch Toffee apple type trench mortar?  I have a 'stalk' from one. It is solid unlike a 2 inch one and has a small brass threaded stud at the base. I assume this is for either a gas check disc or , as mentioned on Wiki,  for a Temple Silencer. I can't find much reference to either the 1.5 inch variant (this is full length, not the 1.57 inch Vickers ones) or the Temple Silencer.  A. Saunders does refer to it as being developed for use with the Temple Silencer and I have been told that the 1.5 was a trials one developed to overcome the tendency for the stalk to blow back to the firing position, and as it was unsuccessful and overheated the tube, is not a common item.

 

Any further info, especially a picture of a Temple Silencer, would be much appreciated.

Edited 31 August , 2020 by ServiceRumDiluted

[Mike_H]

Attached is a photo of the silencer and a key to the numbered parts

 

Mike

 

 

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Thanks Mike, thats really useful. I was trying to visualise it, wiki describes a 'special piston' attached to the 'tail' which is what I guess the brass stud is for. I assume the silencer catches this piston to seal the barrel and subdue the flash and noise.  This explains the barrels overheating and must have slowed the rate of fire while they fiddled with those corned beef tin keys to extract the retained part of the piston. The reduction to 1.5 inch must have been to give a lip to capture the piston and was not a reduction in the tube bore, hence no search results for a 1.5 inch variant! Really helpful, thanks again.

Edited 1 September , 2020 by ServiceRumDiluted

[14276265]

Mike_H - thank you for the images of the silencer and spares.

 

Notification of introduction of the 2" trench howitzer with silencer into the Service was given in War Office List of Changes, Paragraph 18609, in 1917.

 

From the 2" manual: "The Temple Silencer consists of a steel cap having two handles and furnished with coned segments provided with expanding springs and spring guides. When screwed fully home on the muzzle of the mortar the segments are contracted to a bore of 1.51 inches diameter. 

A special stick 1.5-inch diameter and enlarged at the front end to fit the service bomb socket is provided for use with the silencer. The rear end of the stick is prepared with a central tapped hole for the reception of a1/4-inch brass screw by means of which the gascheck is attached to the stick immediately before loading."

 

Also: "Continuous rapid fire with the mortar is not possible when using the silencer, owing to the abnormal heating of the mortar due to the confinement of the gases in the bore. Fire at the rate one one round per minute can be maintained for five or six rounds."

 

It was necessary to sponge out the tube using a sponge cloth on the rammer between shots, to remove the heavy condensation that occurred with each round.

 

 

 

 

265

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Thanks 265, really interesting post, appreciate it.

[arantxa]

Does any one know of a picture of the 1.5 being fired was it a much smaller version of the 2inch or larger one and more mobile..the one i have does not have a very long stalk and until i read this had not looked at the stud ....in fact i dont know much about it .....what fuse did it have....i can up load some pictures if wanted ...Mike H posted a picture but i cant open it  on line there does not seem to be much information

Thanks in advance

 

[DavidOwen]

1 hour ago, arantxa said:

Does any one know of a picture of the 1.5 being fired was it a much smaller version of the 2inch or larger one and more mobile..the one i have does not have a very long stalk and until i read this had not looked at the stud ....in fact i dont know much about it .....what fuse did it have....i can up load some pictures if wanted ...Mike H posted a picture but i cant open it  on line there does not seem to be much information

Thanks in advance

 

Mike's images have been restored in his post.

[arantxa]

Thank you Mike that looks a really complicated piece of kit 

[arantxa]

I was sent this from a contact which is what I was particularly  after now just to find a firing picture 

[14276265]

The Fuze, Percussion, No.136 was of French design intended for the Brandt type bombs being designed for the 3-inch mortar at the end of the war. None were issued to the service.

[arantxa]

Thanks for that

   Then the search goes on !!

 

[ServiceRumDiluted]

On 27/10/2023 at 15:53, arantxa said:

Thanks for that

   Then the search goes on !!

 

Thats a 1.59 inch Vickers mortar round, not the 1.5inch variant of the 2 inch.  This was an early one used in small numbers in 1915.  

[arantxa]

Hi it’s the 1.59 that I’m interested in but it seems near impossible to find any thing about them…I want to know what they were fired from etc

Thanks 

[Mike_H]

Actually it's the  1.57". Attached is a photo of the mortar with its kit. Please don't ask how it fitted together on the mount - I don't know and have never seen a handbook.  Also posting a copy of the original IWM caption used when  an example was displayed in the 1920's -

Mike 

 

 

[Mike_H]

For good measure a nice photo of bombs heavy and light.

 

[arantxa]

That is fantastic !!! Thank you so so much I will print it out and study it 

Thanks again 

have a great weekend 

A

[arantxa]

Looking at the pictures carefully I think I’ve I’d this that I found a few years back so a double whammy 

The one in the pic has I think a void but it’s the right LB etc