Some help and advice regarding a soldiers date of death.

[andrew pugh]

Good Afternoon 

I wonder if anybody could advise me on the date of a soldiers date of death. I have a copy of a cemetery list for Delsaux Farm Cemetery, Northern France. It was given to me by the C W G C some while ago. It lists all the casualties buried within, known and unknown. One evening last week I was looking through it and came across an unknown Officer of the Royal Fusiliers.

This is exactly how he is entered on that list; Unknown Officer, 24th Battalion, Royal Fusiliers, killed 25/03/1918? Records Missing. Grave III.B.21.

I did some research and eventually came across across an Officer who is 2nd Lt Coppack of the 24th Battalion Royal Fusiliers who's date of death is confirmed by the C W G C as the 25/03/1918. However the S D G W shows his date of death as 24/03/1918, "died of wounds".

Find a Grave Index shows his date of death as the 25/03/1918.

Ancestry's Soldiers Effects lists him  Died 24/03/1918 (on or since).

His Medal Roll shows him as "missing" 24/03/1918.

A couple of questions i would like to ask, how does S D G W list him as "Died of wounds" surely for them to have stated that he died of wounds then there must be records available showing this to be the fact, and giving an accurate date of death. The dates are all over the place on all the sites. On the 25/03/1918 the 24th Battalion Royal Fusiliers were not in that area they were well past a village called Ligny Thilloy and Pys, they were in the area of Delsaux Farme Cemetery (Green Line) on the 23/03/1918 so logically the unknown Office could not be who I thought it was.

I then came across a 2nd Lt Coppard also of the 24th Battalion Royal Fusiliers who is listed on Ancestry's Soldiers Effects as Died 23/03/1918 K.I.A. 

Medal Rolls show "Died of Wounds" 23/03/1918.

C W G C show that he died 23/03/1918 the dates are more consistent, but once again the Medal Rolls show he to died of wounds there must be records out there giving this information that he died of wounds.

This is the officer that i am sure is buried in Delsaux Farm Cemetery is 2nd Lt Coppard. The dates for the first office are all over the place and certainly confuse the researcher. Your comments would be most welcome.

Kind Regards

Andy      

[The Inspector]

Hi Andy,

Ancestry has him listed as H.J.Coppard when it should be W J ..William John. Probate shows he died of wounds received in action in France on 23.3.1918. Address 20 Dover St., Canterbury.

Looks like he served as T/4/038598. ASC. 95th Coy. Commissioned to 5th RF. was CSM. 31.7.17. Father George Coppard, 53 Redvers road, Brighton.

William's occ.was a clerk on attestation, 1911 census Junior Law Clerk. Attested Canterbury, 28.11.14 aged 19 yrs 6 months. Service records on Ancestry

Also his father's service records are on Ancestry as well Gnr.374088 RGA. George Coppard.

Regards Barry

Edited 21 August , 2020 by The Inspector

[ss002d6252]

Quote

A couple of questions i would like to ask, how does S D G W list him as "Died of wounds" surely for them to have stated that he died of wounds then there must be records available showing this to be the fact, and giving an accurate date of death

It was at the basic level from whatever records were sent back to the records offices but we also don't know what happened when the clerks keeping the records came across a missing, declared dead, man  - someone along the way may simply have made a decision to list them as DoW rather than KiA, we don't know what the mindset was in the decision.

 

Craig

[TEW]

The history for the cemetery supplied by CWGC says Delsaux Farm was taken by the Germans 23/3/18. The Germans created the cemetery and buried 103 commonwealth dead plus their own. Shortly after the war the Germans were exhumed and relocated. The 103 commonwealth dead were also exhumed and reburied in the same cemetery, some in plot III row B.

 

I'd guess the commonwealth withdrawal from the farm 23/3/18 was hasty, disorganised and a surprise.

 

Whether he was left behind wounded or it was assumed he didn't get out due to being wounded or he was found dead by the Germans will never be known.

TEW

[andrew pugh]

Hi 

Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for your information. I have tried looking on the N A site for the Officers Papers for these 2 officers, but find it a very difficult site to use.Would there be Officers Papers available on that site or would they not exist?

Regards

Andy

[ss002d6252]

16 minutes ago, andrew pugh said:

Hi 

Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for your information. I have tried looking on the N A site for the Officers Papers for these 2 officers, but find it a very difficult site to use.Would there be Officers Papers available on that site or would they not exist?

Regards

Andy

They would not be viewable online as they're not digitised. They would have to be viewed in person at the N/A.

Craig

[andrew pugh]

Hi Craig

Thank you for that info.

Regards

Andy

[andrew pugh]

Good Morning

I have been looking through the list of casualties buried in Grevillers British Cemetery and noticed that there are 2 Indian Labour Corps men, one of them is an unknown and the other is 

Amrai Singh, service number 31 2401 grave XI.C.18. His date of death according to the Indian casualty records he died on Tuesday 4th August 1914. How come. Were the Indian Labour Corp in that area at that time? I cannot check the Commonwealth War Graves Commission because their site is down at the moment probably due to the weather?

I also notice that there are 18 French Civilians buried with the cemetery all killed during the 1918 period.

Regards

Andy

    

[andrew pugh]

Sorry! this should have been a new topic I apologise.

Regards

Andy

[johnboy]

The WD might give names of officers lost