Special Exhumation - 2Lt H. B. Pilgrim, Hebuterne.

[brummell]

I wonder if a member with more expertise than me in reading CWGC records could clarify what might have gone on with the burial of Harry Pilgrim?  I've tried to get to grips with Special Exhumation reports via other threads but my understanding is still imperfect!  CWGC record here.

 

He was killed by shell fire in the afternoon of 1 July 1916, holding the British front line east of Hebuterne, as related in some detail by the unit war diary.  The GRRF, stamped 8 Dec 1920, puts him in IV.B.13 with a manuscript amendment to grave 14, as a UBS is inserted above him:

 

 

However, there is also a special exhumation report which predates this (20 Sep 1920), giving the place of burial as IV.B.15.  Nowadays there is no grave 15 on that row; Harry Pilgrim is last man, as indicated by the GRRF.  No cross had been erected.  It also describes the means of identification (named braces and a named apostle spoon), which suggests to me the remains were in need of identification.

 

Am I likely to be right in deducing therefore that Pilgrim was buried in an unnamed grave (IV. B. 15), exhumed for identification, and then reburied one grave over from where he was originally found? If so, is it unusual that his original burial would not have been recorded/records lost?

 

Final question - am I just being a bit dense?!

 

- brummell

[TEW]

One would think the name on the braces and spoon would have been noticed at first burial.

 

Possible his named marker had been lost so he wasn't buried as an unknown.

 

The addition of the UBS on the GRRF adds another level of difficulty. When was this added? could be anytime.

 

The cemetery plan shows an unused gap between 13 & 14. Is it possible grave 15 was re-numbered as 13 and he was returned to his original grave?

 

Still difficult to explain how the UBS was then indexed as in grave 13 and Pilgrim amended as grave 14.

 

My experience on these things is minimal but I have seen that sometimes cemeteries were re-jigged and tidied up by exhuming and re-burying without any further paperwork.

 

That area of Hebuterne does not look that 'tidy' on plan, odd gaps here and there.

TEW

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TEW said:

One would think the name on the braces and spoon would have been noticed at first burial.

 

Possible his named marker had been lost so he wasn't buried as an unknown.

 

The addition of the UBS on the GRRF adds another level of difficulty. When was this added? could be anytime.

 

The cemetery plan shows an unused gap between 13 & 14. Is it possible grave 15 was re-numbered as 13 and he was returned to his original grave?

 

Still difficult to explain how the UBS was then indexed as in grave 13 and Pilgrim amended as grave 14.

 

My experience on these things is minimal but I have seen that sometimes cemeteries were re-jigged and tidied up by exhuming and re-burying without any further paperwork.

 

That area of Hebuterne does not look that 'tidy' on plan, odd gaps here and there.

TEW

 

 

 

   But it is even clearer than that from the exhumation report- officer's uniform and collar badges.  Hebuterne Cemetery does look untidy on the plan-which CWGC is rather cryptic about in the cemetery details. My guess-and it is a guess- is that partial remains of an UBS were recovered when tidying up- perhaps bits of uniform kit of an OR??- enough to show there was another body there.  It would be interesting to know if there was an exhumation report for the UBS-alas, CWGC  seem still to be a touchy subject and much underrated in CWGC online. Personally, if 2 bodies were buried that close, I would be looking for another soldier of the Kensingtons unaccounted for. Of course, we are back to the grisly reminder of war that we don't know-after a shell explosion-just how much was left to bury. It seems that Pilgrim's body was reasonably intact- height 5' 8", khaki unifrom and collars,etc.

   A further small query is that he was carrying a silver spoon- I have several times come across  spoons/forks being a means of ID for ORs but this is the first time that I have come across an officer carrying cutlery,.  

    The papers for the UBS next to him look the best way forward.

[tharkin56]

His mother wrote to the War office as only his silver apostle spoon was returned and no items of value his field glasses, cigarette case and revolver the stern reply pointed out as he was killed by shell fire these items were unlikely to have been recovered. Entered France, 31^st May 1916. His mother applied for his medals, Norwood Road, SE24. 

So his spoon after identification was removed from his remains and then forwarded to his mother. Also would you have a photo by any chance, i spoke to his relatives and they do not have one.

 

 

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

4 hours ago, TEW said:

… I have seen that sometimes cemeteries were re-jigged and tidied up by exhuming and re-burying without any further paperwork.

 

That is EXTREMELY interesting - can you please give specific examples of cemeteries where that happened ?

Tom

[tharkin56]

Tom one for the audience KNOTT, Major, James Leadbeater, DSO James was originally buried in Row B. Grave 14. Fricourt New Military Cemetery however his brother Captain H. B. Knott  also fell and was buried near where he fell in Belgium. Both brothers are  buried next to each other and both headstones read ‘Devoted In Life In Death Not Divided’.  Father, Sir James Knott  now buried Grave Ref. V. B. 15. Ypres Reservoir Cemetery, Belgium. Did Sir James have an influence with the Graves Commission?

[Knotty]

16 minutes ago, tharkin56 said:

Father, Sir James Knott  now buried Grave Ref. V. B. 15. Ypres Reservoir Cemetery, Belgium

I think you will find the father Sir James was laid to rest at St Clement Jersey, near to the family home.

In Ypres the Grave  V B 15 is that of his son Major James, Captain Henry is at rest in V B 16.

As to influence, yes most probably is the answer, Sir James built up a major shipping line empire on Tyneside, as well as being a former MP for a Sunderland constituency, he was a major philanthropist in the Notth East of England, and after the war paid for parts of Ypres to be restored, the St George’s Chuch Tower Ypres is an example. The Trust he set up still gives millions to certain charities every year.

 

Before you ask, same surname no relation😁

[brummell]

13 hours ago, tharkin56 said:

Also would you have a photo by any chance, i spoke to his relatives and they do not have one.

 

Sadly not - I would dearly like one.

 

Thanks to all for replies and thoughts so far.

 

- brummell

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

22 hours ago, tharkin56 said:

… KNOTT, Major, James Leadbeater, DSO James was originally buried in Row B. Grave 14. Fricourt New Military Cemetery however his brother Captain H. B. Knott  also fell and was buried near where he fell in Belgium. Both brothers are  buried next to each other and both headstones read ‘Devoted In Life In Death Not Divided’.  Father, Sir James Knott  now buried Grave Ref. V. B. 15. Ypres Reservoir Cemetery, Belgium. Did Sir James have an influence with the Graves Commission?

 

Trevor Firstly - I put a search for Sir James into the CWGC website - eleven results, starting with Pte John McLeod, Sgt John Harold Rhodes, and eventually moving on to the history design and unveiling of the Rangoon Memorial. Ref Sir James  - nothing. Couldn't make it up.

 

I am aware of oddities such as you mention above - Lt JW Power for example was originally in a marked grave just north of Ginchy. He was exhumed and reburied in Delville Wood Cemetery but then later exhumed again and reburied in Citadel NMC - his now vacant grave at Delville having an "unknown" put into it. No explanation has been found.

 

However what I was actually questioning in post #2 was "...  I have seen that sometimes cemeteries were re-jigged and tidied up by exhuming and re-burying without any further paperwork." - cemeteries were re-jigged and tidied up by exhuming and re-burying - that's a very different issue from these occasional "oddities".

Tom

[Knotty]

14 hours ago, Tom Tulloch-Marshall said:

I put a search for Sir James into the CWGC website -

Did you read post #7, Sir James Knott is buried in Jersey where he died in 1934, it is his sons buried in Ypres.

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

8 hours ago, Knotty said:

Did you read post #7, Sir James Knott is buried in Jersey where he died in 1934, it is his sons buried in Ypres.

 

Yes I was very obviously aware of the content of post #7 - what I was searching CWGC for was any database mention of Sir James in correspondence or meeting minute files - not a CWGC burial record.

 

Still looking forward to an explanation of what I was actually questioning in post #2  "...  I have seen that sometimes cemeteries were re-jigged and tidied up by exhuming and re-burying without any further paperwork." - cemeteries were re-jigged and tidied up by exhuming and re-burying - that's a very different issue from these occasional "oddities" and the suggestion that this happened is a matter of great interest to me, and others.

Tom

[Knotty]

1 hour ago, Tom Tulloch-Marshall said:

Yes I was very obviously aware of the content of post #7 - what I was searching CWGC for was any database mention of Sir James in correspondence or meeting minute files - not a CWGC burial record.

Apologies Tom, thought you were looking for a burial of Sir James

[tharkin56]

Tom some evidence of a bring move around in Gordon Dump Cemetery. 

[tharkin56]

every day is a learning day even though the men buried in Gordon Dump have a plot row and grave number as above and individual headstone, when you do a CWGC download they all have the same ref simple Row VI. So is this a collective grave? with the men buried somewhere in the row? Other graves here have 3.M.1 etc