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Pat Twomey

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Pat Twomey

This is the file for Yeoman of Signals Patrick Casey from Waterford who was killed in the Explosion of a barge while he was serving on HMS "Glowworm" in August 1919 in North Russia. I am trying to read the attached file and from what I can make out he was serving as a Naval rating from 1903 to when he was killed in 1919. However, I have also found him on the 1911 Census in Waterford as a 'pig-buyer' living with his parents in Military Road. The census was taken probably in early 1911 but from the file attached it seems he was serving on board HMS Orontes up to March 2011 and on HMS Pembroke shortly after that. Could someone tell me if I am interpreting the file correctly?

Thanks

Pat1349846487_PatrickCasey.jpg.3aeb45e44c2801a77cf4423ec978c988.jpg

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horatio2
Posted (edited)

You are correct in your reading, However, the entry "HMS PEMBROKE" means that he was living in RN Barracks, Chatham from March to September 1911. Perhaps he was at home on leave when the census was takenon April 1811. 

I cannot explain the "pig-buyer" unless it was the 1911 equivalent of the more recent occupation 'Jedi knight'

Or else you have the wrong man. Or the census-taker made a clerical error.

Edited by horatio2

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RNCVR

Yes he was serving on HMS Orontes in 21 Dec 1909 to 2 March 1911 when he is drafted to HMS Pembroke Base at Chatham.

 

Orontes was at that time a Depot Ship for Destroyers in Malta.

 

I cannot explain why he was shown as a Pig Buyer on the 1911 Census, perhaps Horatio can throw some light on that anomoly.

 

he did receive his RN LS (Long Service) medal on 8 May 1919 just before he died on 25 Aug 1919.

 

Best...Bryan

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RNCVR

The Census should show his occupation as RN sailor or something to that effect I would think. That was his mainoccupation at the timeof the census.

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Pat Twomey

Thanks Horatio2 and Bryan for your help.  Don't thing it was a 'Jedi Warrior' entry as his father actually was a 'pig-buyer' and I'm 99.9% sure it is the right man. Although to throw another spanner in the works it seems he got married sometime in Jan-March 1917 to Doris Godwin in Bristol and if I'm reading his file correctly he was on the Attentive II and the Hecla seemingly without a break on those particular dates.

Maybe one of these ships was in Bristol and he got some leave and got married - is there anyway of checking whereabouts they were at that precise time?

Thanks again much appreciated.

Pat

Btw Bryan did you discover his long service medal from the attachment I posted or did you find it somewhere else?

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

I cannot assist you on his possible marriage part but I can with his Service Record.

 

Look in the Remarks column at bottom - on the right side it says ---  Traced Medal - 8.5.19.

 

This is the date his LS medal was sent to his ship & subsequently awarded to him.  He required 15 yrs Good Conduct to qualify for this medal,which he had - he had no breaks in good conduct & no cell or detention time during his career.

The reason this is entered on his ADM 188 is because he received a Gratuity for his LS medal.  ADM 188 Record records everything a rating was paid for.

 

Best....Bryan

Edited by RNCVR

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RNCVR

When he was on Attentive II - he was actually on HMS Porpoise - a Destroyer of 1913. Attentive would have been the Dover port Depot ship to which a number of Destroyers were attached to.

Crews were "borne on the books" of Attentive for pay & accounting purposes. They were accommodated on the Depot ship when not at sea & victualled ( fed) on them as well. 

 

& that continued onto HMS Hecla & Apollo, the next two entries on his Record, as well. Both were,at that time, serving as Destroyer Depot ships.

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RNCVR

Interesting concerning his death whilst borne on the books of HMS Fox  from 1 June 1919 to date of his death in August.  HMS Fox at that time is shown as the Depot ship for the Archangel Expeditionary Force from 1 Apl 1919, leaving UK on 14 Apl & remaining there until Sept 1919.

 

Be interested in knowing where his grave is located.  

 

Best....Bryan

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

OK, I got him ---

 

CASEY  Yeoman of Signals   227466 PATRICK 25 August 1919,  Age 33, ARCHANGEL ALLIED CEMETERY  Sp. Mem. B20.
Edited by RNCVR

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RNCVR

Patrick Casey should have, in addition to RN LS medal, a 1WW trio -- 1914-15 star, British War & Victory medals, Memorial plaque, & Scroll.

 

Do you have these by any chance Pat?

 

Best,,,,Bryan

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horatio2

His trio of WW1 medals was claimed by and issued to his widow.

 

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RNCVR

She might also have his LS medal, possibly being sent from Depot ship Fox his n.o.k.

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horatio2
1 hour ago, Pat Twomey said:

he was on the Attentive II and the Hecla seemingly without a break on those particular dates.

There is always the possibility that he was granted leave friom PORPOISE. Periods of leave are not recorded, From March 1917 PORPOISE was based at Devonport (depot ship HECLA), so not too far from Bristol by train.

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Pat Twomey

I searched and searched but could not find the medal card for him. Did you find it  on the "UK Campaign Medals Awarded to WWI Merchant Seamen" on Ancestry Horatio2?

That sounds like a good possibility re 'leave from Porpoise'.

Interesting that his widow Doris Godwin got his medals. His brother Michael Casey married Doris in August 1921. Michael was also in the navy see the Medal card below.

Casey Michael medal card.pdf

 

 

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

 No Medal Cards for RN, RNR, RNVR.  The 1WW medal roll is in ADM 171 series.

It will also indicate by a letter who was in receipt of his(Patrick Casey) 1WW medals ---- ie: F = father  W = Widow, etc.

Horatio has already determined this in post 11.

Edited by RNCVR

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seaJane
4 hours ago, Pat Twomey said:

married sometime in Jan-March 1917 to Doris Godwin in Bristol

Western Daily Press 23 Mar 1917: "CASEY—GODWIN.—March St. Joseph's Catholic Church, Fishponds, the Rev T. O'Riordan, Patrick Casey, EN., of Waterford, Ireland, to Doris Lilian Grace Godwin."

I've only picked this up from the OCR transcript as I can't get to the image (on Genes Reunited) so I guess that EN., is a mis-transcription of RN. Fishponds is a suburb of Bristol.

 

Either FreeBMD or familysearch.org gave me Doris's second name, and searching on "Doris Lilian" Godwin led me to Grace as the third. Searching on "Doris Lilian Grace Godwin" after that - the quotes to ensure that the whole block of text was searched - gave me the newspaper reference and a link to a rootchat forum entry that looked interesting but which I couldn't access.

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Pat Twomey

 

This is a photo of Patrick Casey his brother Michael and his father John. I think the cap says HMS Bruiser. Is the other cap a naval one as well?

 

 

 

515939280_MichaelPatrickandfatherJohnCasey.jpg.fa1d4140c6a781796bdd809e61966748.jpg

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

HMS BRUIZER was a Destroyer of 1895,but she was sold out of service (likely as obsolete) on 26 May 1914.

 

Do you have any idea of the year of the photo?

 

Patrick Casey is a Leading Signalman. I see from his ADM 188 above he made Leading Signalman 28 Jun 1909, so perhaps just after that year.  But no HMS Bruizer noted on his Ships, so bit of a mystery here, his ribbon does appear to be Bruizer.

 

The dapper looking fellow looks as if he is just dressed up for the photo, not a seaman or officer, wearing nautical flavour caps was normal for young gentlemen of the time.

 

Very nice photo!

 

 

Best.... Bryan

Edited by RNCVR
.

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Pat Twomey
Posted (edited)

Thanks Bryan for that information. Does his uniform indicate that he was a 'leading signalman'? If so then that would mean the photo was taken sometime between June 1909 and September 1914 when he became a 'Yeoman of Signals'. Would that be correct?

Thanks again,

Pat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Michael, Patrick and father John Casey.jpg

Edited by Pat Twomey

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

The insignia on his right arm sleeve for that time period is that of a Leading Signalman,

On his left sleeve the anchor is the rank badge of a Leading Seaman, the Chevron below that indicates his 1st Good Conduct badge(GCB) awarded after 3  yrs adult service(from age 18).

 

Yes, I would think that the photo would have been taken during that time frame you mention but I cannot explain the Bruizer cap ribbon. Perhaps somehow he served a bit of time on her that for some reason was not indicated on his Service Record.

 

Their grandfather appears to be a distinguished looking old gentleman.

 

Best...Bryan

Edited by RNCVR

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RNCVR

Actually we can narrow the photo time frame down a bit - he rec'd his 2nd GCB on 19 Apl 1912, so photo has to have been taken prior to that date.

 

 

Best...Bryan

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Wexflyer
Posted (edited)

Are you sure it is the correct family on the 1911 census? I think you mean this one

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003507885/

Apart from the fact that Patrick should not have been there, and the wrong occupation, the name of the mother on the 1911 census does not match that of his mother on his birth registration.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02600/1960478.pdf

Edited by Wexflyer

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horatio2
10 hours ago, RNCVR said:

Yes, I would think that the photo would have been taken during that time frame you mention but I cannot explain the Bruizer cap ribbon. Perhaps somehow he served a bit of time on her that for some reason was not indicated on his Service Record.

I thnik this is correct. During 1909 to 1911 when his record states that he was borne on the books of HMS ORION/HMS ORONTES (same ship re-named) she was a depot ship for torpedo boats at Malta. ORONTES and BRUIZER seem to have returned to Devonport in early 1911. His record shows that he was borne on List 12 which is for men serving in tenders. The name of the tender has been ommited from the record but he was almost certainly serving in BRUIZER. parented by ORION/ORONTES.

I would hazard a guess that the photo was taken in 1911 at the time of the 1911 census after the ships returned to UK.

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Pat Twomey

I thought of that Wexflyer but came to the conclusion that the 1911 census was the correct family and that the Mother Johanna interchanged her name with the name Bridget on some of the birth certificates. The 1901 census also has the following children included Bridget (born Margaret in 1878), Eily (born Ellen in 1880) and Michael (born to John and Bridget in 1883). I think it would be too much of a coincidence if they were a different family.

 

Good work Bryan that would tick a lot of the boxes - the cap ribbon, being at home for the 1911 census etc. Maybe the political situation in Ireland meant they decided to put 'pig-buyer' as profession instead of RN.

 

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