HTSCF Fareham Posted 13 July , 2020 Share Posted 13 July , 2020 I'm researching the above chap who was part of "O" Special Company, Royal Engineers. He died from the effects of a gas shell on 25/10/1918 aged 28 and is buried at the Etaples Military Cemetery. What I would like to know is when did he enlist (Gosport) and where and what were the cirumstances of his demise? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 13 July , 2020 Share Posted 13 July , 2020 (edited) Hi, Hopefully @Terry_Reeves will pick up on your post, and give you a run down. In the meantime the unit war diary is here at the National Archives - currently free to download after registration. 18th General Hospital All images sourced from Findmypast Edits: 12 years completed service would indicate that he originally joined up circa 1905/06. I see from his Soldiers Died record that he was previously 8067 with the Royal Berkshire Regiment. A couple of near number men show that 8061 House joined up on 8.11.1905; 8065 Chappell on 7.11.1905; and 8079 Somerville on 27.11.1905. In the 1911 Census (Ancestry link), it looks like he may have been with the 2nd Bn in India. Image sourced from Ancestry He is on the 14 Star medal roll record of the 2nd Battalion, with an overseas date of 6.11.1914. Regards Chris Edited 14 July , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 14 July , 2020 Share Posted 14 July , 2020 Hi, Records for men in the RE in the number range 112200 to 112299 I saw, show: 112200 Scott Image sourced from Findmypast 112205 Rea Image sourced from Findmypast 112209 Salt Image sourced from Findmypast 112212 Swan Image sourced from Findmypast 112279 Rainsley Image sourced from Findmypast 112297 Tyler Image sourced from Findmypast Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 July , 2020 Share Posted 14 July , 2020 (edited) Given that he died at a hospital in Etaples, that suggests he was gassed before that date. In 1917, the SB instituted a proforma system for post- operation reports, which included the number of casualties for each operation, There were no casualties noted for September. However, the unit HQ was stationed at Henin Lietard, just south and east of Lens in October and although there were not engaged in operations, between 23rd and 28th October they were engaged in burning out gassed cellars and washing them out with chlorine. There were also engaged in clearing out dugouts, some of which contained mustard gas, so that is a possibility assuming he was gassed very early on in the operation. Other than that there is nothing else I'm afraid. TR Edited 14 July , 2020 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 14 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2020 21 hours ago, clk said: Hi, Hopefully @Terry_Reeves will pick up on your post, and give you a run down. In the meantime the unit war diary is here at the National Archives - currently free to download after registration. Thanks, Chris. I've downloaded the War Diary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 14 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2020 21 hours ago, clk said: 18th General Hospital All images sourced from Findmypast Is this where he was taken sick, then passed away, Chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 14 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, clk said: Hi, Records for men in the RE in the number range 112200 to 112299 I saw, show: 112200 Scott Image sourced from Findmypast 112205 Rea Image sourced from Findmypast 112209 Salt Image sourced from Findmypast 112212 Swan Image sourced from Findmypast 112279 Rainsley Image sourced from Findmypast 112297 Tyler Image sourced from Findmypast Regards Chris So, about August 1915 for Royal Engineers Edited 14 July , 2020 by HTSCF Fareham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 July , 2020 Share Posted 14 July , 2020 8 minutes ago, HTSCF Fareham said: Thanks, Chris. I've downloaded the War Diary. See my post no 4 TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 14 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2020 1 minute ago, Terry_Reeves said: See my post no 4 TR Doh, sorry! 7 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said: Given that he died at a hospital in Etaples, that suggests he was gassed before that date. In 1917, the SB instituted a proforma system for post- operation reports, which included the number of casualties for each operation, There were no casualties noted for September. However, the unit HQ was stationed at Henin Lietard, just south and east of Lens in October and although there were not engaged in operations, between 23rd and 28th October they were engaged in burning out gassed cellars and washing them out with chlorine. There were also engaged in clearing out dugouts, some of which contained mustard gas, so that is a possibility assuming he was gassed very early on in the operation. Other than that there is nothing else I'm afraid. TR Trying to remember where I got the detail about the gas shell now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 14 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2020 Post #6 - What does Gas Shell "W" ?????? mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 July , 2020 Share Posted 14 July , 2020 53 minutes ago, HTSCF Fareham said: Post #6 - What does Gas Shell "W" ?????? mean? Gas shell - wounded. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 14 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2020 5 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said: Gas shell - wounded. TR Thanks, Terry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 14 July , 2020 Share Posted 14 July , 2020 (edited) Hi, 2 hours ago, HTSCF Fareham said: Is this where he was taken sick, then passed away It's where he died - the record indicates at 20:15 hours on 25.10.1918. 18 General Hospital was at Camiers, as shown by the front cover of the ledger: Image sourced from Findmypast However, the record indicates that he was only there for a day before his demise. He seems to have arrived at 18 General Hospital on (i.e. 24.10.1918) from . Images sourced from Findmypast Intriguingly on the same page in the ledger there seems to be another 'O' Special Company man, 147141 Sgt David Britton, who appears to have been admitted from the same place, on the same date. The ledger shows that he was admitted suffering from Broncho Pneumonia. However, he has some service papers that survive which attribute his condition to him being gassed on 22.10.1918. He appears to have been initially evacuated by 1/1 London Field Ambulance on 23.10.1918. 2 hours ago, HTSCF Fareham said: Post #6 - What does ... ?????? mean I think that the word is 'severe' Regards Chris Edited 14 July , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 July , 2020 Share Posted 14 July , 2020 (edited) That's a good find. It fits in with the cellar clearances but not the gas - shell. TR Edited 15 July , 2020 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 15 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2020 7 hours ago, clk said: Hi, It's where he died - the record indicates at 20:15 hours on 25.10.1918. 18 General Hospital was at Camiers, as shown by the front cover of the ledger: Image sourced from Findmypast However, the record indicates that he was only there for a day before his demise. He seems to have arrived at 18 General Hospital on (i.e. 24.10.1918) from . Images sourced from Findmypast Intriguingly on the same page in the ledger there seems to be another 'O' Special Company man, 147141 Sgt David Britton, who appears to have been admitted from the same place, on the same date. The ledger shows that he was admitted suffering from Broncho Pneumonia. However, he has some service papers that survive which attribute his condition to him being gassed on 22.10.1918. He appears to have been initially evacuated by 1/1 London Field Ambulance on 23.10.1918. I think that the word is 'severe' Regards Chris I concur, brilliant find! Thanks, Chris. One final point - 24/10/1918 from 4 Can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 15 July , 2020 Share Posted 15 July , 2020 It is likely to be 4 Canadian Casualty Clearing Station. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 15 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2020 10 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said: It is likely to be 4 Canadian Casualty Clearing Station. TR Thanks! This just about wraps everything up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 15 July , 2020 Share Posted 15 July , 2020 (edited) Hi, On 14/07/2020 at 21:56, clk said: He [147141 Britton] appears to have been initially evacuated by 1/1 London Field Ambulance on 23.10.1918. I'm wondering now if I have mis-read his file, and if it may be something like 1/1 Lowland Field Ambulance. Image sourced from Findmypast 14 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said: It is likely to be 4 Canadian Casualty Clearing Station. Their war diary for October 1918 shows that they were based at Agnez-les-Duisans: Images above sourced from the Library and Archives Canada In the 'O' Company diary there are mentions of the O/C visiting 8 Corps. The Deputy Director Medical Service, 8 Corps diary has an amendment to medical arrangements (dated 27.9.1918), which indicate that 4/CCC were one of 3 that were based there at the time. Image sourced from the National Archives I guess that if you wanted to spend some time on a likely evacuation chain for Joseph, you could establish which divisions formed 8 Corps, and find their associated Field Ambulances. Then you could compare their locations (either through their individual diaries, or hopefully by arrangements shown in the divisional ADMS diary) with the location of his RE unit. Regards Chris Edited 15 July , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 16 July , 2020 Share Posted 16 July , 2020 (edited) I have a list of SB operations which includes Corps and Divisions supported. The nearest relevant date is operation number 1118 supporting 58 Division, VIII Corps on 6.10.18. There was a nil casualty return for that operation and any event O Coy was not involved. I still suspect it was the cellar clearance task that caused the gassing. TR Edited 16 July , 2020 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 16 July , 2020 Share Posted 16 July , 2020 Hi, 14 hours ago, clk said: On 14/07/2020 at 21:56, clk said: He [147141 Britton] appears to have been initially evacuated by 1/1 London Field Ambulance on 23.10.1918. 14 hours ago, clk said: I'm wondering now if I have mis-read his file, and if it may be something like 1/1 Lowland Field Ambulance. It does seem to be 1/1 Lowland FA. Their war diary shows: The ADMS 52nd Division diary notes "All evacuations still have to be sent to Agnes Les Duisans which necessitates very long journeys for cars, taking 6 hours for one journey.". Images above sourced from Ancestry Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 16 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2020 Chris and Terry, thanks for these updates. Just trying to track back through. Please put me right if I have got this wrong! Died from the effects of gas whilst engaged in clearing out dugouts, some of which contained mustard gas on 22/10/18. Evacuated from ???????? to 18th General Hospital at Camiers by 1/1 London Field Ambulance on 23/10/1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 16 July , 2020 Share Posted 16 July , 2020 (edited) Hi, I'd value Terry's opinion, but for me there only seem to be a couple of things that you can be certain about, because they are actually documented. Having arrived there the previous day [see edit below], he died in the care of 18 General Hospital (based in Camiers) at about 20:15 hours on 25.10.1918, suffering from severe gas shell wounds. (Based on his MH 106 record) He is buried in Étaples Military Cemetery. (Based on his CWGC records) What seems likely to be correct: Prior to being at 18 General Hospital he was in the care of the 4th Canadian Clearing Station, (Based on an interpretation of '4 Can' in the MH 106 record). Accepting that is most probably the case, following his wounding/gassing he would have been evacuated to Camiers via Agnez-lès-Duisans, What there is no 'hard' evidence for: The precise date, place and circumstances of his wounding/gassing as the 10 Special Company RE war diary is silent on the matter (though I would very much be inclined to be guided by Terry). The diary entry for 23.10.1918 says "All sections were employed on the cleaning out of gassed cellars and dug outs", at Henin-Lietard. The diary entry of 1/1 Lowland Field Ambulance shows that they received orders at 7am on 22.10.1918 to move to Henin-Lietard. Conjecture: On the same page of the MH 106 record there is another 'O' Company man (147141 Britton) - admitted to 18 GH from the same place and date as your man. His service file suggests that he was wounded on 23.10.1918 and evacuated (24.10.1918) by 1/1 Lowland Field Ambulance (not as I had originally thought the 1/1 London FA). At that time (despite it being a lengthy journey), the 1/1 Lowland FA appear to have evacuated wounded by motor car ambulances to VIII Corps CCSs which included the 4 Canadian Casualty Clearing Station at Agnez-lès-Duisans. NB it's always a bit dangerous to fit 'facts' to one man based on service records of a sample size of just one other. Edit: I didn't previously pick up that the diary for 4/CCCS on 24th October says that they evacuated patients to 28 Ambulance Train. Their diary (link) appears to show that they left "Agnes" (sic) at 17:30 hours on the 24th, and arrived at Etaples at 01:25 hours on the 25th. So it would appear that Joseph was probably admitted to 18 General Hospital in the small hours of 25th October and died in the evening of the same day. Image sourced from the National Archives Regards Chris Edited 17 July , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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