SS Haliç Ottoman ship

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

 

I wonder if you could help in the details of the sinking of this ship?

 

A German Officer is shown died in this sinking;

 

Dörflein     LtzS Marine    Inspector of Arms and Munitions at Istanbul Accounting and Procurement     1915-17    shown KIA 27-5-17) in the sinking of the "Halic" shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

On checking the Turkish sites they shown this on the Halic

 

Haliç

tons?

1911 (bought)

Country?

Sunk in 1911

 

Now if the ship was lost in 1911 how did this man died in 1917?

 

There must have been a second ship by that name which is note listed on the Turkish site?

 

Any ideas here?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[michaeldr]

6 hours ago, stevebecker said:

There must have been a second ship by that name which is note listed on the Turkish site?

 

or even a 2nd & 3rd etc ?

 

There's a reference on page 55 of 'Ottoman Women during World War I – Everyday Experiences, Politics and Conflict' by Elif Mahir Metinsoy [accessed via Google books]

It gives (quote)

“Especially during the winter of 1917-18, when the prices of basic goods peaked, they used the Haliç steamship departing from Bandirma to send provisions to Istanbul.”

 

So the name of this ship seems to have been used more than once.

[michaeldr]

Caveat to the above

 

There is another version of this work by the same author which is available on line here https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-01885891/document

and in this case the wording used suggests that Haliç, rather than being the name of a specific ship, was in fact the name of the shipping line

See page 160 - these officers used Haliç steamship number 5 from Bandırma to İstanbul to send the provisions.

 

I wonder if Klaus Wolf was also working from a record which gave only the name of the line, and not that of the specific ship involved?

Edited 11 July , 2020 by michaeldr

[Michael Lowrey]

There's also something not right with the officer entry — there's no “Dörflein” listed in the Ehrenrangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine, 1914-1918 or the 1916 Rangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine.

[KizmeRD]

I’m not overly familiar with the Turkish language, but as far as I understand it, ‘Haliç’ is what is referred to in English as the Golden Horn. As such it is likely to have been in very common usage. There was certainly a shipyard and shipping company using that name, and probably several ships of that name too.

[RNCVR]

Halic is not mentioned in 'Dictionary of Disasters At Sea During the Age of Steam,

1824-1962.'

 

 

[Guest]

Mates,

 

Thanks for your work?

 

The mystery deepens?

 

On checking some of Klaus names I have ran into the same questions?

 

But thats often happens with those lost in Turkey during the war, where not all are recorded?

 

I also record this man who died on the same date

 

Schätzlein Paul    LtzS deR Art Marine     I. Mine Search Div. - Dtsch. Abtl. am Bosporus    1915-17    (born at Gütersloh died 27-5-17) in the Laz Skutari by mine Schw. Meer b. Agatschli in Black Sea grave at Tarabya Istanbul 
 

But the Ship's name yes I would agree there must have been more then one ship.

 

Numbers appear lost doing the Coal run along the Northern coast of Turkey on the Black Sea, that just don't get recorded?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[Michael Lowrey]

Paul Schätzlein is listed in the Ehrenrangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine, 1914-1918. He was a Leutnant der Reserve der Matrosenartillerie (commissioned at that rank on July 16, 1915) and was born on March 8, 1885. 

 

There's no navy casualty by the name of Dörflein. Could he have been an army officer?

[Guest]

Michael,

 

Thank you possibly you may help here

 

I show this man lost with U 54?

 

I record him

 

Fricks Wilhelm Freiherr von    Kapt-Lt Marine     Türk Torpidobot Filotilla Komutani (Turkish Torpedobot Filotilla Commander) to U 54?  U Boat  1914-15    (KIA 1917)? reported at Hornsriff on U 54 shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

Now U 54 was not lost, so how did this man died?

 

Do you have any records here?

 

Cheers

S.B

[Michael Lowrey]

Steve,

 

Freiherr von Fircks (note correct spelling) was the commander of U 59 and was killed on May 14, 1917 when the U-boat got into a newly-laid German minefield while sailing outbound from Helgoland. Escorting vessels picked up four members of U 59's crew. The wreck has been found in  recent years. Uboat.net page on him is here.

 

Best wishes,

Michael

Edited 11 July , 2020 by Michael Lowrey

[Guest]

Mate,

 

Thank you.

 

He does appear as;

 

Fircks Wilhelm Freiherr von    Kapt-Lt Marine    Turkish Torpedoboat "Demirhisar" to Commander U 59 lost off Denmark U Boat     1915-    (born at Berlin KIA 14-5-17) RTG 11-15 as courier in Berlin to U Boats reported lost when U 59 struck a German mine off Horns Reef 33 dead 4 saved shown 14 ships sunk with a total of 28, 050 GRT shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

So two enteries in Wolf's book?

 

I missed him the second time?

 

Not the first I found so far

 

Cheers

 

SB

[Felix C]

 Hello Everyone, 

Have two questions please. Attempting to confirm if a diary entry is correct or no.
When was Fircks assigned to the Demir Hissar?
About where was Demir Hissar on/about August 10-12, 1914?

Thanks for all the replies.

[Guest]

Mate,

Sorry, Can not find any thing right now, other then her being with Souchon's raid into the Black Sea under Capt Ahmet Sefik Hasan Bey.

Details of the raid are shown else where and the ships actions.

 

S.B

[Felix C]

35 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

Sorry, Can not find any thing right now, other then her being with Souchon's raid into the Black Sea under Capt Ahmet Sefik Hasan Bey.

Details of the raid are shown else where and the ships actions.

 

S.B

Upon reconsideration I think it was a diary entry error as I found another entry which was erroneous.

[Guest]

Mate,

Fircks, I believe replaced Mellenthin around Jan 1915 on the "Demirhisar"

I show these Germans on that ship

Fircks (Fricks) Wilhelm Freiherr von    Kapt-Lt deR Marine    MMD (Military Mediterranean Division - Türk Torpidobot Filotilla Komutani (Turkish Torpedobot Filotilla Commander) CoCommander Torpedo Boat "Demirhisar" (with Capt Talat Bey) in raids off Tendoes) 7-3-15 and 15-4-15 to U Boat School Crew 4/01 to Commander U 59 II Flotilla 9-16 to 5-17 lost off Denmark U Boat     1915-    (1881 at Berlin KIA 14-5-17) tot reported lost when U 59 struck a German mine off Horns Reef 33 dead 4 saved shown 14 ships sunk with a total of 28, 050 GRT shown (interned in Greece) bisher zurückgehalten (previously held back) kriegsgefangen PoW 17-4-15 when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15 RTG 11-15 as courier in Berlin to U Boats awarded EK II & EK I and Ottoman War Medal shown in Klaus Wolf's Book

Gerlach Albert    Torpedo ObHeizer deR Marine    Sdr-Kdo (Sonderkommando) - Ottoman Torpedo Boat "Demirhisar"     1915-    (Born at Nordhausen ) (interned in Greece) bisher zurückgehalten (previously held back) kriegsgefangen PoW 17-4-15 when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15 aus der internierung in die heimat zuructgetehrt (returned home from internment)

Harden Karl     Torpedo ObBoots-maat Marine    CPO Ottoman Torpedo Boat "Demirhisar"     1915-    (Born at Stepenitz ) (interned in Greece) bisher zurückgehalten (previously held back) kriegsgefangen PoW 17-4-15 when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15

Keyserlingk Harald von     ObLtzS Marine    Deutsche Militär-Mission in der Türkei - German Embassy guard at Constantinople 1914 to Commander Ottoman Destroyer "Gayret-i Vataniye" 1914 shown Ottoman Torpedoboot "Demir-Hissar" or "Demirhisar" interned in Greece RTG (Crew 4/08) to UB 2 Baltic Flotilla 7-16 to UB 36 Flandern Flotilla 12-16 U Boat    1914-15    (born 1889 at Thorn KIA 9-5-17) 4 ships sunk with a total of 432 GRT shown vermißt* (died) MIA 8-6-17 in English Channel off the Flanders coast sailed on the evening 9-5-17 possibly lost when rammed by French steamer Moliere while attacking a convoy north of Ushant 21-5-17 shown (interned in Greece) bisher zurückgehalten (previously held back) kriegsgefangen PoW 17-4-15 when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15 RTG as Courier to Berlin 11-15 awarded EK II & EK I 15-1-15 brother Albin-Karl shown in Klaus Wolf's Book

Krause Otto    Torpedo Masch Maat deR Marine    Ottoman Torpedo Boat "Demirhisar"     1915-    (Born at Ketschdorf ) (interned in Greece) bisher zurückgehalten (previously held back) kriegsgefangen PoW 17-4-15 when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15

Mellenthin Hans-Joachim von     ObLtzS to Kapt-Lt Marine    CoCommander Turkish torpedocruiser "Berk-i Satvet" (with Hamdi Bey) Souchon's Black Sea Raid 1914 to "Samsun" 1-15 & Turkish torpedoboat "Demirhisar" to U Boat School Crew 4/06 to Commander UB 11 training Boat to UB 43 Pola Flotilla 8-16 to 4-17 to UB 49 Pola/Mittelmeer II Flotilla 6-17 to 6-18 to UB 120 Pola Flotilla 8-18 to 11-18 U boat    1914-17     (born 1887 in Schivelbein/Hinterpommern died 12-6-71) Pour le Mérite 57 ships sunk (154, 662 tons) awarded Royal House Order of Hohenzollern and EK II & EK I and Military Merit Cross and Ottoman Osmanie Order and Silver Medal Imtiaz with Scimitars and Ottoman War Medal post war Marine Brigade von  Löwenfeldt 1919-20 later WWII Kor-Kapt CofS at the Gotenhafen naval arsenal brother in law Field Marshall Fedor von Bock shown in Klaus Wolf's Book 

Pleikis Martin    Torpedo Ober Matrose deR Marine    Ottoman Torpedo Boat "Demirhisar"     1915-    (Born at Köken ) (interned in Greece) bisher zurückgehalten (previously held back) kriegsgefangen PoW 17-4-15 when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15

Reinwald Karl     Ober Matrose Marine    Ottoman Torpedo Boat "Demirhisar"    1915-    (Born at Neustadt a. Hardt ) (interned in Greece) bisher zurückgehalten (previously held back) kriegsgefangen PoW 17-4-15 when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15
 

I sorry but the Ottoman crew of this ship is not recorded in any of my sources, other then the two known Captains

Istanbullu Ahmet Sefik Hasan Bey    Commander Ottoman TB "Demirhisar"    Capt Naval        Souchon's Black Sea Raid 1914 reported damaged the seaplane carrier HMS Anne near Smyrna 11-3-15 Sunk in 1915

Mehmet Lütfi Telat Bey    CoCommander Ottoman Torpedo boat "Demirhisar"    Capt Naval        in raids off Tendoes) 7-3-15 and 15-4-15 lost when ran aground off Chios 16-4-15
 

S.B

Edited 7 September , 2021 by stevebecker

[michaeldr]

11 hours ago, Felix C said:

where was Demir Hissar on/about August 10-12, 1914?

Checking in the 'The Ottoman Steam Navy 1828-1923' I cannot find any mention of the Demirhisar for that date. There's nothing on her between

9 March 1913: Another operation is planned against Imroz. Mecidiye sails from the Dardanelles in company with Berk-i Satvet and Yarhisar. Demirhisar and Hamidabad patrol off the Dardanelles.

And

10-11 March 1915: The Demirhisar, with an Ottoman crew under the command of the German Kptl Freiherr von Fricks, departs Çesme for Izmit, with orders to attack any warships at anchor in the area.

[Felix C]

Thanks Gentlemen.

Appreciate the interest and responses. 

von Fricks was uncle to another officer whose diary I was verifying and well as it turned out Demirhisar's final sortie was misdated. I did not have a date for when the German Naval Mission arrived in Turkey.