865/527010 QMS Samuel Percy Bristow 1st London (City of London) Sanitary Section RAMC

[Grandrew2]

I am researching the 1^st WW career of the above who I believe served in the 1^st London (City of London) Sanitary Section RAMC which he joined on the 8^th Nov 1909.  He was given the number 865 and was a QMS by the outbreak of the war. He first landed in France on 17^th Jan 1915. He was certainly a sanitary inspector straight after the war on discharge, but I am not sure of his career immediately before but in the 1911 Census he was a builder’s manager. He was renumbered in 1917 to 527010 which is the block for the 1^st London Sanitary Section

I do know he was MID LG 30 May 1918 Page 6338 for Italy and was awarded a French Decoration, the Medaille D’Honneur avec glaives LG 29 Jan 1919. After the war he was heavily involved with the British Red Cross and I expect he received honours from them too as I have found many entries for him and his wife setting up and training the local ARPs. He was a Divisional Officer BRCS and his wife the VAD Commandant for the Ruislip & Northwood area where he was also the Senior Sanitary Inspector the local Urban Council.

Anything anyone can tell me of that section during the war and what Samuel may have been doing will be gratefully received. I have found lots of interesting stuff on the forum but most of it last posted over 10 years ago and I am hoping more has become available since. I would particularly like any help on the circumstances of his two gallantry awards. Maton’s book Foreign Honours suggests the Medal of Honour in Silver Gilt with swords or “glaives” indicating bravery in the face of the enemy and in the first Class. Maton says only 196 were awarded for 1WW. He was also MID for Italy in LG 30 May 1918 page 6338.  I suspect it was for more than unblocking a latrine under shell fire!

[TEW]

Discovery not working at present but there should be a unit diary for his time in France available for free.

 

I think it will be 56th Sanitary Section although I'm not certain they went to Italy. They were moved to VII Corps in April 1917, corps troops perhaps?

 

Sanitary units - greatly under recognised work which covers quite a range.

TEW

[HTSCF Fareham]

Courtesy of Forces War Records

 

 

[TEW]

Well, there are 2 unit diaries at TNA for 1 London Sanitary Section under lines of communication rather than a division. No mention of Italy though.

 

Here and here. These are free at present but you have to register.

 

These start in July 1916 so his first year and a half are not covered by these.

 

I originally said 56th SS as they were with 56th (1st London) division. As the diaries are free you could try this one as well for his early period. Here. Although this only goes back to Feb 1916.

 

Not sure what covers his early service.

 

TEW

 

 

[Grandrew2]

Many thanks for your reply TEW I did a search on Discovery for 1st (London) City of London Sanitary Section RAMC as that is what appeared with one of his London Gazette Citations but only got 4 hits for MICs of soldiers in this unit. A search on Sanitary Sections brings up 277. Why did you think he may be 58th please? I will have a go at downloading that. I was surprised when the MID was for Italy and his MIC says first Theatre France so he got around a bit' Shame his Personal File has not survived although I might no check the MOD Pre 1901 listings. I could not find him on the BRCS website. 

 

There is one Divisional Record but from the preview this seems to be for the 7th Staffs. All possible of course but I was hoping to hone my research start point.

 

I still think there is a good story to uncover

 

Thanks too HTSCF for the Forces War Record file

 

Regards

 

 

Andrew

[Grandrew2]

Sorry TEW just saying Thank you and your second email popped up

Brilliant thank you

At least with later ones I have a chance of seeing what the MID and French Decoration are for

 

Andrew

[TEW]

Hopefully they will have some useful content. At least they're free at present!

Always interested in seeing what they may offer up.

TEW

[Grandrew2]

All three diaries downloaded ready to go thank you. However senior management has a list of jobs for the morning so will save for later but again many thanks for steering me in the right direction TEW

Cheers

Andrew

[TEW]

I had to have a further look into this unit and found a few other forum threads.

It seems to be a unit with a complex arrangement.

There are posts that say;

it became 22nd Sanitary Section of 42nd Division. 

 

Then there are suggestions the unit were simply supplying men for RAMC work. One man from 1st LSS worked as a stretcher bearer for 23 field ambulance of 7th division.

 

Each division had a sanitary section which would need drafts of men. He may have been with another division.

 

Section or company?

Maybe the same thing but apparently 1st London Sanitary Company contained 100+ Sections. So there should be a 1st section of 1st LSC.

TEW

 

[Grandrew2]

Thanks TEW I too am discovering the complexity of the task. As you say the 1st London Sanitary Company had over 100 sections and he could be in anyone of them. After ploughing through the War Diary for the 1st London Section in WO95/4125 I have not discovered him yet. It seems to relate to a Sanitary Section based in Rouen throughout the war lead by a Captain Martin Priest. He was particularly meticulous in the neat pencil entries for each day but it reads like a personal diary. I.e. what he was doing or arranging to be done assisted by his 24 men. I have found no awards mentioned but he does note each time one of the men goes on leave and when they return or when they go to hospital or apply for a commission. - with a neat Name Rank and serial number. Sadly no Samuel Percy Bristow and he was a senior rank so I would expect him to have had some leave noted or a transfer out. I have covered 95/4125/1, 2 and 4 but failed to download the rest. I will as soon as Discovery lets me back in .

I found no mention of him in 56th Division Sanitary Section Diary WO97/2995 indeed Captain D Porter seems to mention very few of his subordinates. 

Whilst I had 277 Hits on Discovery for Sanitary Sections I only got one when I add Italy to the Search and that was for a document not available Online.

I need to find a way for getting to his specific Sanitary section and hope there is a diary

I will keep at it meanwhile any further suggestions welcome.

Currently I thought I would check all the RAMC men who were MID at the same time as him to see if any in a Sanitary Section. I am doing the same with the Foreign Awards London Gazette Sam got his French award but found only 528116 Pte(A/Sgt) Leonard Austin Marshall 48th Sanitary section RAMC (Bury). I will check him and his Unit out for signs of Sam  

It is a shame I cant find any Service papers for him

 

Andrew

[TEW]

I did a general google search for;

1st London Sanitary Section which brings up other forum threads plus a few other things of interest. A copy of 'The Yellow Band' on Wellcome.

 

There is a published official history as well.

 

I noted that 7th Division came up a few times and they did go to Italy.

 

It could involve a lot of chasing diaries.

TEW

[Grandrew2]

I have drawn a blank ploughing through the War Diaries. I did find them an interesting read but after 3 or 4 I began to note a marked similarity. Some go into great details of the treatments/apparatus to prevent infection and keep the varied Units in their area/Division safe. I did not find any that mentioned any awards but there was some detail of the movement of individual soldiers sufficient to pin them to the actual unit. So even if I plough through 100 plus and eventually find mention of 527010 Samuel Percy Bristow I don’t think it will add a lot to what I now know about him personally.

I did look at the other RAMC soldiers awarded an MID in the same Gazette or the Medaille D’ Honneur but no clues there to help me find his unit. What I did find though was many went on to get other awards or had already got them.  I then looked at Soldiers with numbers 527000 to 527020 and found a few awarded the TEM but again no clues that would help me track down Sam’s service.

I even tried looking through the Index of the WFA Journal and found one article written by a Soldier in the 1^st London Sanitary Section he actually served in the 33^rd and noted that the 14^th Section went to Italy in late Dec 1917. I checked that diary too for even though all the Sanitary Section Diaries online at the National Archive do not appear to cover the period any served in Italy I was hoping Sam might be there earlier.

Unless I can find some personal RAMC Records for 1^st WW and the British Red Cross for the 2^nd WW I am stuck for now. However, if anyone stumbles across anything specific about 865/527010 QMS Samuel Percy Bristow RAMC on their travels I would be grateful to hear from them

Many thanks again to all that have respond particularly TEW

 

Andrew

[TEW]

Yes, with him disembarking with 1st LSS but then being posted/attached to one then maybe another medical unit It is going to be a tricky hunt.

 

Did you check 7th Division?

 

Italian diaries have not been digitised yet, no idea if there are plans to do so.

 

I note they assigned 4000 numbers to 1st LSS from 527001. It would be interesting to see how the numbers were assigned and I suspect most numbers were not assigned.

 

A search on findmypast in their MH106 admission and discharge books does produce results for EG. a search for Royal Army Medical Corps with number 527*** shows 38 hits. 528*** shows 40 hits. For example 527059 shows up in 1917 and 1919

 

530*** only shows 19 and these are 4 or 5 digit numbers not 6.

 

You'd need a paid up subscription to view the results which should give their unit (not the one shown as being admitted to in the search results).

 

You could opt for a one month subscription but you'd need to check which option, I think the £12.99 option would give access or the PAYG option at £8.95 for 90 days with a set number of views for that series (possibly only 12).

TEW

[Grandrew2]

I hadn't downloaded the 7th Division but I did just now and settled down for what I thought might be a long read. So glad I did not pay £3.50. I don't know whether its OK to upload on the Forum and I hope I have not broken any rules but here in all its glory is what appeared. One actual page the rest are covers! Hopefully it will save any future researchers.

I am a member of Find My Past and have downloaded quite a bit about Samuel

 

Thanks Again

 

Andrew

7th Sanitary Section WO-95-2259-4.pdf