finding war service details.

[steveA215]

Hi  all I'm trying to find my great grandfather's service record already have two service numbers and regiments.  he was discharged in 1919 . I was told alot of the records were lost in ww2 bombing.  I was also told by family he may have been at Ypres year unknown. any help or if someone could point me in the right direction as I have come to a dead end as it were many thanks. 

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. A name would help for starters, without that, members can't help you. Also date and place of birth and family details .

Michelle

 

[Polar Bear]

Also welcome to the forum. As Michelle states we need more information to be able to help you. However if you look in the top left hand corner of the screen you will see a link under the forum's name to a website called 'The Long, Long Trail'. If you go there you will see plentiful information on the (sometimes infuriating) ways to look in to a soldiers service for as you correctly say many of the records were lost during WW2. Luckily many of the subsidiary records (medal rolls etc) have survived.

 

Hope that helps

 

P

[steveA215]

Hi thank you for that I already have a lot of information I have seen medal card and pension records on ancestry.  I have in my possession his medals themselves just this final piece of the puzzle of where and when he served my next challenge!

[MaxD]

So how about posting his name number and regiment all of which you have already!

 

Max

[steveA215]

details as follows.  pte David James Garbett  b 09/01/1891 Bedlinog Glamorgan Wales d 28/09/1970 Luton Bedfordshire.  Ďuke of Cornwall Light Infantry 38785 . Royal  Berkshire Regiment 45694. discharged on 03/01/1919 . if this helps thanks. 

[Matlock1418]

Welcome to GWF

You may be interested to know he has a Disability Pension Ledger under 45694 https://www.fold3.com/image/644155800?terms=45694,garbett

9 William St., Abercyron, Glam[organshire]

Apparently for Debility foll[owing] Dysentery - back of PL shows a Conditional award 10% = 5/6 [pw] 4/1/19 - 15/3/21 but no further grounds recorded on 4/2/21

Courtesy of Western Front Association / Fold3

:-) M

Edited 3 July , 2020 by Matlock1418
addition

[MaxD]

The medal award roll associated with the medal card shows 10 Battalion DCLI then 2/4 Battalion Royal Berks..  It looks as if his service record has not survived so dates of service may not be easy to ferret out. 

 

Max

[Matlock1418]

Steve,

Have you tries looking at Battalion War Diaries [and Divisional WD]? - For general service situation(s) [v. v. v. v. unlikely to be mentioned by name] - MIC has no date of landing in theatre with DCLI so would normally be 1916 onwards, so should narrow things down a bit

Many WD are available at the National Archives - if relevant ones are available then they are currently FREE to download at present [you just need to register]

:-) M

Edited 3 July , 2020 by Matlock1418
addition

[steveA215]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Welcome to GWF

You may be interested to know he has a Disability Pension Ledger under 45694 https://www.fold3.com/image/644155800?terms=45694,garbett

9 William St., Abercyron, Glam[organshire]

Apparently for Debility foll[owing] Dysentery - back of PL shows a Conditional award 10% = 5/6 [pw] 4/1/19 - 15/3/21 but no further grounds recorded on 4/2/21

Courtesy of Western Front Association / Fold3

:-) M

many thanks for that I had already seen this. 

[steveA215]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

The medal award roll associated with the medal card shows 10 Battalion DCLI then 2/4 Battalion Royal Berks..  It looks as if his service record has not survived so dates of service may not be easy to ferret out. 

 

Max

many thanks for that that's something I didn't know. 

[johnboy]

11 minutes ago, steveA215 said:

many thanks for that I had already seen this. 

You need to give us all you have and where you got it from. People hate being asked for info, find some, only to be told 'I already know that'

[MaxD]

To add to Matlock1418's post'

 

10 DCLI didn't go to France until Jun 1916, their diary is here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351953

 

2/4 R Berks have 7 diaries covering their time in France: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=WO 95&_ep=2%2F4 Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv

 

The vital fact we don't have is the date he transferred from the DCLI but as the diaries are free at present you could download them all although as M has said, the chances of an individual soldier being mentioned by name are vanishlngly small.  The Riles Berkshire and Wiltshire museum (currently closed) has the diaries transcribed:

https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/research/war-diaries although they can only be searched day by day.  The museum has a history, two parts to 2/4th here:

https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/research/history-regiments/berkshire-regiment-1881-1885-royal-berkshire-regiment-1885-1959

 

Max

[kenf48]

Pte Garbett's age is a bit of an outlier for the period when he joined the 10th DCLI.

 

The 10th was a Pioneer Battalion, we don't know when he enlisted but we know he first served overseas in a theatre of war with the 10th DCLI.  His number was allocated between the the 29th March 1918 (38774) and the 2nd April 1918 (38843), probably at the Infantry Base Depot  in France.

 

Drafts at this time were being rushed to France to cover the losses to the BEF incurred on March 21st. 

They consisted of young soldiers posted from the Training Reserve and older men 'combed out' of Home Service units.  I found two older men compulsorily transferred from the Pay Corps to the infantry and the DCLI around this time.  There was considerable confusion and the turn round at the IBD was swift and they were posted to active service units in the field within a short time of arrival.

 

The war diary notes on the 6th April "Reinforcements received amounting to 207 other ranks 100 of these had not been in France before and were quite young.  On the whole a good draft.".  A further eleven reinforcements arrived on the 8th April.

 

The Royal Berkshire number is proving more difficult, also the reason for his transfer.  The number 45690 was allocated on transfer on the 16th August 1918 and 45707 was allocated on the 18 August in France, and the soldier posted to the 1st Bn.

So posted to the 2/4 mid August 1918, unfortunately I can't find any drafts around this time.

 

Given his age we may be able to make an educated guess as to his enlistment if we knew his occupation before the war but without a service record it's very difficult to track home service.

EDIT

Had a look at the census, coal miner would seem appropriate for the Pioneers. Coal miners were exempt from military service, although many volunteered before conscription.  However army manpower became critical in 1917 and men were taken from the mines and conscripted into the Army.  Although older he would have followed a similar path through the Training Reserve before being posted to France.

[steveA215]

Hi many thanks for that. he was indeed a coal miner being welsh all of the family worked in the pits at the time. so i would guess this would be a sort of reserved occupation

    given the dependents on coal at the time. I was told he was posted to the Isle of Wight for training of which i dont know the exact date then it seems on to France quite 

    late on in the war.

The family moved to Luton Beds just before the second world war for work. my grandparents died young so they had to look after my mother . he retired in 1965.

the following year i was born he would look after me too. sadly he died in his sleep peacefully in 1970.

I have his medals in safe keeping and always was interested to find out where he served.

I only have two medals as awarded on his medal card . Is there a reason for this? was it because it was late on in the war?

with thanks again to all who have replied to my posts.

[Matlock1418]

20 minutes ago, steveA215 said:

I only have two medals as awarded on his medal card . Is there a reason for this? was it because it was late on in the war?

Yes, as post-1 Jan 1916 in theatre of war = just British War Medal and Victory Medal

:-) M

Edited 4 July , 2020 by Matlock1418

[MaxD]

A snippet to add to the end of his service.  The war diary of the 61st Division Headquarters (the division in which 2/4 R Berks served) records that by 30 Dec 1918 all miners in the division had left the division for early release (his release in England was on 3 January)  Early release of miners to get the country back on its feet again had begun in mid 1918 but reached full flow in the last months of 1918.  By mid January 1919, 173000 had returned to the pits.

 

Max