Uniform Question

[DaveWinther]

I'm wondering if there is any other unit unique markings on this photo. I assume I'm correctly identifying him as a member of the Machine Gun Corps. Beyond that I am at a loss.

Sadly, I can't get a better version of the picture. The woman that sent it to me as an 80 year old widow so I was happy to even get this!

 

Thanks for any ID help you can offer!

 

-Dave

 

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. He is indeed a Sergeant in the  MGC. Wearing a private purchase ID bracelet, and at least 3 overseas service chevrons. Does he have a name? 

 

Michelle 

[FROGSMILE]

Michelle has identified all the salient points.  He wears a 1914 pattern leather waist belt and his cap is the 1916 ‘soft’ type.  As the overseas service chevrons were authorised in December 1917, and issued the following year, you can be assured that the photo was taken at some point in 1918.  The MGC had become a vital corps in the Army’s order of battle and played a key part in trying to stem the advance of the German, Spring offensive that year, suffering many casualties as the British line was overrun in several places.  Eventually the line held and the corps then played an equally key part in turning the tide and advancing to victory between August and November.  As Michelle says, it would be interesting to know his name and see if any of his personal details can be traced.

Edited 21 August , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[DaveWinther]

THAT is the million dollar question. This picture was in with some of my cousin's father's family pictures. My best guess is he is either a Kirkpatrick or a Simpson. There is one Kirkpatrick (Harold, a SGT!) listed on the MGC rolls that I can find. The problem now is trying to see if that name fits into the family tree, which I haven't been able to determine yet, but am working on it. I haven't done a Simpson name search yet.  Thanks!  -Dave

 

[DaveWinther]

I might add, the Kirkpatricks came from Scotland and then moved to Belfast prior to WWI. The Simpsons lived in England and then moved to Canada after the war. Cousins step grand-father (Simpson) enlisted out of Leeds,  and her biological grandfather, whom was KIA, lived in Belfast at the time of his enlistment. We know for a fact that this man is neither of her Grandfathers.

 

Edited 19 June , 2020 by DaveWinther

[FROGSMILE]

We need the Inspector and his fellow forum detectives.

[TullochArd]

Gazing into the curious ethereal tones of this photo I see three wounded stripes in the area of the left cuff.  Anybody else see them?

[Dragoon]

2 hours ago, TullochArd said:

Gazing into the curious ethereal tones of this photo I see three wounded stripes in the area of the left cuff.  Anybody else see them?

Now there's a good spot!

Nice one

 

Chris

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, TullochArd said:

Gazing into the curious ethereal tones of this photo I see three wounded stripes in the area of the left cuff.  Anybody else see them?

Yes, I believe that I can.

 

 I’m hoping that one of our genealogical detectives will spot this thread and assist with an ID now that we have a potential name.

[PRC]

Bit confused – are we trying to establish if

 

-        Harold Kirkpatrick, (Serjeant 79655 Machine Gun Corps) might be related to a family from Belfast or Leeds, or;

-        if any immediate male members of the Kirpatrick family from Belfast or the Simpson family from Leeds served in the Machine Gun Corps?

 

 If it’s the latter then would need a bit more details about the family members that are known - like the father and step-father. Soldiers Died in the Great War has 12 Kirkpatricks with some kind of Belfast connection plus 32 Simpsons with a Leeds connection, plus there is one sailor Kirkpatrick from Belfast and two sailor Simpsons from Leeds. The National Roll of Honour volume for Leeds also has 35 Simpsons, but none a Serjeant in the MGC.

 

Going back to Serjeant 79655 Harold Kirkpatrick, his Medal Index Card shows he qualified for the British War Medal & Victory Medal – so didn’t serve overseas until on or after the 1^st January 1916.

 

As I don’t currently have access to FMP or Ancestry I can’t check for surviving papers. So next port of call was a check of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website for MGC men with the service number 796* who died – and there are none. So either he was in a very lucky cohort of 1,000 men, or that Harold Kirkpatrick went out very late to the war. So taking into account the man in the photograph has three wound stripes, it would seem increasingly unlikely that he was Harold.

 

I then did a 10 service number check of the National Archive catalogue either side of 79655. All bar one did not serve with another unit, (I was particularly looking for Labour Corps), none qualified for the Silver War Badge – and all were Serjeants.

 

The anomaly was Serjeant 79661 Joseph C Harrad who had been F/2553 Royal Naval Air Service and would go on to be 608213 Royal Engineers.

 

So like I said – either very lucky or late to the party!

 

My final check for now was the Casualty Lists that appeared in The Times during the period 1916 to 1920. There was no match for a ‘79655’ + ‘Kirkpatrick’.

 

Not definative but looking increasingly unlikely.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited 20 June , 2020 by PRC
Formatting & typo

[kenf48]

13 hours ago, PRC said:

 

The anomaly was Serjeant 79661 Joseph C Harrad who had been F/2553 Royal Naval Air Service and would go on to be 608213 Royal Engineers.

 

Harrad's records survive (served in Russian Armoured Car Unit RNAS) posted to MGC 28 January 1918.

 

Returning to the issue at hand as you say there are a number of Simpsons and a possible first name would be very helpful.  Given the photo was taken in 1918 with three overseas stripes we assume he qualified for the 14-15 Star.

I have only found one so far, but he was a regular soldier and Saddler Sgt in MGC Cavalry. (21st Lancers) was discharged due to 'multiple gsw and cuts'. Initials either A.W. or W.A.  There is no indication on the uniform it was him.  There are, as Peter has noted, literally dozens of Simpsons.