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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Robert Mitchell


ripriprip

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Hi, I joined after reading this thread. I'm trying to find my Grampa's Enlistment papers, for my Grandson, who is doing a project on him for exam mark. Grampa was Robert Mitchell born Feb 7 1898 at 268 Cannongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland. His parents names were Margaret and John Brown Mitchell. I have a Medal Card, which I think is his, however I can't be sure yet. I've not been able to find Robert's Enlistment papers, or any other paper, other then this card. I'm not even positive this card is his, however, I had saved it years ago from the internet. Robert didn't talk about his war experience, these details are all I know, and just family rumour... He may have fought in South Africa? He was probably part of the Royal Scots Fusiliers. He had been affected by a mustard gas attack, but I don't know where. He learned the skill of being a barber while in the Army. 
He turned 18 in the year 1916, therefore assume that's his enlistment year, but not sure. He may have lived at Rhymer Street in Glasgow during this year.
In July of 1920 he went to Toronto Canada, where he remained for the rest of his life. 

I've been to  nationalarchives.gov.uk, fold3.com, findmypast, ancestry, to name a few, and viewed prob a few hundred records, but have not been able to confirm any for him yet. 

Everyone was so helpful in this thread, I thought I'd post the only record I have, this medal card, and see if you can help me understand the information on it, to see if this is my Grampa. I guess his personal number was 30005? This is the only record I've found with that number on it while searching. Again, still trying to prove if this record is the right one for my Grampa.

I don't understand what the D/102B10 stands for, can someone tell me please? And I can find info on page 1017, however, where would I find that?
Thank you so much in advance, for any details. 
Tammy
 

RobertMitchell-30005-medalCard.JPG

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Welcome to the forum Tammy.  Unfortunately the name Robert Mitchell will have been a very common one, but you have provided some good information, including a date of birth and a home address, and I’m sure that some of the excellent genealogical detectives who frequent this forum will soon be along to assist.  In the meantime I enclose an image of the insignia that he would have worn if he were indeed a Royal Scots Fusilier.

 

89F48648-C962-40D1-A8E2-056CBFFBB702.jpeg

0F2BAAC2-A493-464A-9CCB-DA021AC6D6A4.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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The D102 etc just refers to the Medal Roll from where the info was extracted to create the cards. The only additional info on the rolls show this man serving with the 12th battalion RSF

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The card is for a man in the Royal Scots Fusiliers.  The D/102 B10 is simply the reference of the medal award roll on which the card entry appears.  1017 is the page number in that roll.  (Crossed in the post) The card does give the extra information that he served overseas after the start of 1916 .and that he was in 12 Battalion R Scots Fusiliers that came into existence in Egypt out of the Ayr and Lanark Yeomanry which may or may not help us. 

 

You may not know that some 60% or so of Great War records were lost tp bombing in WW2 so the odds are always against finding an individual's record.  If by South Africa you are thinking the Boer war, it was over when he was 4.

 

Max

Edited by MaxD
info already provided
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Do you know where his medals are? Might some member of your extended family have them?

 

The reason I ask is because his Regiment and service number will be on the rims of his medals.

 

He does not have any surviving service papers I'm afraid.

 

Regards

 

Russ

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Hi Tammy,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

2 hours ago, ripriprip said:

I don't understand what the D/102B10 stands for, can someone tell me please?

 

That's an admin reference to link the index card to the medal roll that establishes his medal entitlement. The roll itself is available on Ancestry - link. It shows that man had his overseas service in a theatre of war with the 12th Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers.

 

image.png.ef174c75e538220ac0b447cdea67c54b.png

Image sourced from Ancestry.co.uk

 

30005 Mitchell doesn't seem to have any surviving service papers, most were lost as the result of a fire during WW2.  Robert Mitchell is quite a common name, may I ask why you think that he may have been your Grampa?

 

Do you have access to his medals?

 

There is good advice on how to try to research a soldier here.

 

Regards

Chris

Edited by clk
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Thank you so much Chris. 
Well the family knew his 'stories', as few as they were, because he never really spoke of the war, made it clear he didn't want to talk about it. Probably more then 8 years ago, I saved that medal card for 30005, into his file. Now, I can't remember if there had been more information, like something I'd found within pictures or a box etc, that would have connected that number to my Grampa. Because you're correct, there are so many Robert Mitchell's. My Grampa didn't have a middle name, as far as I know, so that helps a little. I was hoping to be able to match a record up with his birth place/date or enlistment address/date. I have a full membership to ancestry, but couldn't find any further info then that card I have. But you have found one for 30005, with a lot more info. Thank you. I think my cousin, in Ontario, might actually have his medals in a box. If I got her to find them, would that help my search? Do you think? I've emailed my cousin, and asked her to transcribe the front and back of his two medals to me, if she can't send a picture. Thank you

Edited by ripriprip
add some info
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1 hour ago, ripriprip said:

Thank you. I think my cousin, in Ontario, might actually have his medals in a box. If I got her to find them, would that help my search? Do you think? I've emailed my cousin, and asked her to transcribe the front and back of his two medals to me, if she can't send a picture.

His service number, regiment and name should be on the rim of the medals.

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The rim details look like this Tammy.  As well as the name, initials and unit, there will be his regimental number.

 

If there is a star, the same details are on the back instead.

 

 

7337C440-3591-4FEB-8B8E-EECEC4CAE5B0.jpeg

83723DB0-C987-4436-9D0E-4C9E431DD9A2.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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5 hours ago, ripriprip said:

He may have fought in South Africa?

Will need to do some digging on the other Robert Mitchells from the RSF but 2nd Battalion served under the South African Brigade from April 1918? 

 

Might be something or not. 

 

Regards 

Andy 

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Thank you, I will be following all leads of both the 12th and 2nd Battalion, very interesting. I'll keep you posted when my cousin sends any info. Thank you all so much, you have helped me narrow the search for info on his experience, quite a lot. 

Also, thank you for moving this to it's own topic. I appreciate you fixing me up.

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Just an update. My Cousin went through the box she had. Nothing there about Robert during the war. Family is saying, that it was a hushed topic, no one was ever to speak of it. I'm searching the British Newspaper Archive now, using some of the clues you have given me, to try to identify him, and his experience. 
Thank you all for the help you've given. I appreciate learning more about the terminology, Battalion's and such. I am a genealogist and can help most people, but military records are not my specialty. Thanks again.

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On 10/06/2020 at 12:30, FROGSMILE said:

Welcome to the forum Tammy.  Unfortunately the name Robert Mitchell will have been a very common one, but you have provided some good information, including a date of birth and a home address, and I’m sure that some of the excellent genealogical detectives who frequent this forum will soon be along to assist.  In the meantime I enclose an image of the insignia that he would have worn if he were indeed a Royal Scots Fusilier.

 

89F48648-C962-40D1-A8E2-056CBFFBB702.jpeg

0F2BAAC2-A493-464A-9CCB-DA021AC6D6A4.jpeg


Thank you for sharing these. Really appreciate this.

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15 hours ago, ripriprip said:

Just an update. My Cousin went through the box she had. Nothing there about Robert during the war. Family is saying, that it was a hushed topic, no one was ever to speak of it. I'm searching the British Newspaper Archive now, using some of the clues you have given me, to try to identify him, and his experience. 
Thank you all for the help you've given. I appreciate learning more about the terminology, Battalion's and such. I am a genealogist and can help most people, but military records are not my specialty. Thanks again.


Does that mean the family have ‘lost’ his medals?  The details on the rim would confirm his regimental number and any initials used and be a great help in tracing any details for him that might have survived in newspapers, etc.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:


Does that mean the family have ‘lost’ his medals?  The details on the rim would confirm his regimental number and any initials used and be a great help in tracing any details for him that might have survived in newspapers, etc.

Both my cousins, who are older then I, remember Granny, and their mom, expressing that they were never to talk about the war with Grampa. My cousin reiterated that, after looking in the boxes and finding absolutely nothing regarding his war experience. My cousin thinks that he just didn't keep anything. Sad really, for us, because with his enlistment records gone, now the rest of us can't learn more about his experience. 

I've spent a few hours at the British Newspaper Archives website. Using the search terms, I thought would be relevant based mostly on what I've learned from you all here, I've not found anything relating to Robert. 

I went back to Fold3. I've found a diary for the 12th Battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers https://www.fold3.com/image/416306284 I saw right away that in may they were on the ship Kaisar-I-Hind - I have tried to find passenger lists. But haven't found them yet. 
 

Edited by ripriprip
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2 minutes ago, ripriprip said:

Both my cousins, who are older then I, remember Granny, and their mom, expressing that they were never to talk about the war with Grampa. My cousin reiterated that, after looking in the boxes and finding absolutely nothing regarding his war experience. My cousin thinks that he just didn't keep anything. Sad really, for us, because with his enlistment records gone, now the rest of us can't learn more about his experience. 


I understand. I became confused because you mentioned medals in a box, but I realise now that that was a speculative comment.

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Oh MY Goodness. I contacted my other cousin, and he had Robert Mitchell's dog tag! Thank you all so much!! Proves 30005 was his number. And we are on the right track. 
 

RobertMitchell-Grampa30005-DogTagRSF-FromJohn.JPG

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That’s excellent news and brings some surety now to his identity matching up.

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I want to give back. Here is the war diary for the 12th Battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers May 1918 to May 1919 (I think). 40 pages. I hope this will help other people, maybe some whose family member might have shared the same experience, with my Grampa.
 

WO-95-2366-3_RoyalScotFusiliers-12Battalion1918-1919.pdf

Edited by ripriprip
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I’m not sure if you’ve seen the following basic unit information that comes from the associate website, the longlongtrail:

 

12th (Ayr & Lanark Yeomanry)Battalion.


Formed in Egypt on 14 January 1917 from dismounted yeomanry and placed in 229th Brigade, 74th (Yeomanry) Division.
1 May 1918 : embarked at Alexandria for Marseilles, landing 7 May.
21 June 1918 : came under orders of 94th Brigade, 31st Division.

 

NB.  It will make for a more interesting project/presentation for your grandson that the battalion was one of many, of various regiments, formed from dismounted yeomanry cavalry due to the shortage of infantry and vulnerability of large formations of cavalry.  It was a reflection of the industrialised carnage of modern warfare.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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I did see that yes, I've used the info here and on that page to follow along with as I've learnt about this. Thank you so much for sharing all the knowledge here. 
I'm on page 10 of the war diary, it explains how the different Battalions merged together.

Edited by ripriprip
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