Great Grandfather - East Kent Buffs

[Juliej75]

Hello this is my first post, so please bear with me!

 

My Great Grandfather (Frank L Cloke) was in and is confirmed as being in the 1st East Kent Regiment on Forces war records.  

 

He appears to have 2 service numbers - I thought this was due to re-joining after 1920 - but I don't think that fits with a) his age and b) stories from my Grandad.  It is the correct person as my Dad has the medals.

 

I cannot find his service record, I assume it got turned to ash in WWII along with most others.  I have his medal card though which I purchased from NA.  I wanted to know whether where it says ' Dis (?) T of E 14/4/16' whether that means he was discharged then?  Not sure it is T of E and what does that mean?!  I have looked at previous posts about medal cards and am none the wiser!

 

I have the war diaries from the NA for the 1st Bn which is amazing reading, and there is a F Cloake mentioned in a ceremonial parade for His Majesty - and as I cannot find any other F Cloake in the Buffs I am assuming it is him and just a spelling mistake by the officer writing in the diary.  I feel I am making a lot of assumptions!  If anybody is a Buffs expert and can help me find more out then that too would be great!

 

Any help with confirming what that date means would be gratefully received, thanks!

 

[ss002d6252]

Quote

' Dis (?) T of E 14/4/16'

 

It means he had finished his service period and been discharged - until early 1916 a soldier could still be discharged once his period of service was finished (although, in many cases, he could then later be conscripted).

 

L/7217 was issued 1902/03

 

As a rough guide

Quote

6802 joined on 11th February 1902
7662 joined on 9th September 1903

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/11/buffs-east-kent-regt-1st-2nd-battalions.html

 

A man enlisted for 12 years in to the regular army but could be held for 12 months extra in war time (although in real terms there could be a few months difference).

 

Working backwards - 12 months from 14 April 1916 is 14 April 1915. 12 years prior to that would be April 1903. So, we would expect that he enlisted around April 1903.

 

By looking at some surving records we can tie L/7217 down further.

 

#7218 was issued 15 April 1903

 

This would tell us that #7217 was issued on or just before 15 April 1903

 

Quote

He appears to have 2 service numbers - I thought this was due to re-joining after 1920 - but I don't think that fits with a) his age and b) stories from my Grandad.  It is the correct person as my Dad has the medals.

The second number appears to be from a re-enlistment or a conscription after his original discharge.

 

Craig

[Juliej75]

Thanks Craig, that is really helpful.  A few more clues to unpick!

[PRC]

Hi,

 

He would have been offered a bounty to re-enlist but obviously chose to go home instead. At that point, (14th April 1916) the 1916 Military Services Act which introduced conscription was unclear as to whether time served men, whether Regular Army or Territorial Force, were in it's scope. This caused confusion and led to the MSA being hurriedly amended in the early summer of 1916, but for a few months a time served man might well have believed his time in the Army was done.

 

Following conscription he would have been issued a new number. It's very unlikely he went back to the 1st Battalion, although not impossible. If you can get your money back from your Forces War Records subscription may be worthwhile investing in a month on Ancestry or trying a trial. If the clerk who prepared the Service Medal roll for his Victory Medal and British War Medal followed the standard instructions then it should show all the Battalions he served with overseas. Unfortunately that one is only on Ancestry.

 

Alternatively, once the Covid-19 restrictions start lifting and your local public library re-opens, if you live in the UK many library services subscribe to Ancestry, and if you are a library member you can use it onsite. Some library services have also arranged home access while libraries are closed, so worth checking out the local library service website.

 

I take it you have also picked up on the fact that he landed in France on the 7th September 1914. The 1st Battalion East Kent Regiment was part of the 6th Division and moved to France about that date - the Division is shown as in France from the 10th September 1914. http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/6th-division/

As you are no doubt aware from the war diary, they were very quickly in action, and so as well as the 1914 Star for being in Theatre before midnight on the 22nd/23rd November 1914, he was also under fire \ within range of the German guns, and so entitled to the Clasp and Roses.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[Juliej75]

Hi Peter

 

Thanks for your input.  Yes I have read the war diary and was amazed.  We always thought he was at Mons (which, incidentally is where I currently live in the vicinity of as my husband is military and we are currently with NATO) and we didn't know after that.  To read it and find he would have been at Armentieres then up to Ypres salient was so interesting - I have been to many of the locations mentioned in the diary without knowing that he had probably been there.   I should check the base library and see what subscriptions they have online - good point there!

 

in the 1911 census he is listed as a platelayer for the railway company in Ashford (where my family all come from/are) - hence I was confused by the 1903 date above, but then I guess he was doing his reservist part then but then the war came along.  It is interesting because my Grandad was a soldier before and after the second world war and appears my Great Grandad certainly was before WWI and maybe after? My Grandad always said that there wasn't much work around Ashford apart from the railways hence he stayed a career soldier.

 

Thanks so much for your pointers!

 

Julie

 

 

[charlie962]

On 03/06/2020 at 12:23, Juliej75 said:

My Great Grandfather (Frank L Cloke)

There is an intriguing newspaper clipping in 1918, courtesy FindmyPast.  Could it just possibly be your Frank ?

Your Frank is the only Frank Cloke that I see on the 1914 Star Roll for any Regiment, let alone the Buffs. (There are 2 Frank Clokes with 14/15 Star )

Problems:

He is a Corporal. No mention on FL Cloke's card of other than Private.

He was wounded late 1917. I cannot find such a man in the casualty Lists.

 

 

Needs some work to eliminate or confirm it is him.

 

Charlie

 

Edited 4 June , 2020 by charlie962

[Juliej75]

Hi Charlie

 

Thanks for that - sorry I hadn't seen your post.  

I shall ask my dad if his Grandad had any old injuries - but you're right, it doesn't really match up....

[FROGSMILE]

You asked about the term “T of E”, Julie, it means Terms of Engagement, which in effect is the contract that a soldier signs up to.