condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 Morning all I’d really appreciate any information anyone could find on my Great Uncle, Francis (Frank) Guiver. He was born in 1879 to William Guiver and Harriet Enticknap and was one of ten brothers and sisters, the youngest being my Great Grandmother, Alice Guiver. He married Caroline Everett in 1913 and had two daughters, Winifred and Eileen. His brothers Benjamin, Herbert and George all served in the war and I’ve got a fair amount of information on each of them, but draw a blank on Frank. There is a family story that Frank may have been gassed and died shortly after the war, but not proven. A Francis Guiver died in Colchester in 1928, but I’m not convinced it’s the same man. Any help would be hugely appreciated. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 (edited) James, This may be worth looking into https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F1495504 Regards, Alf McM Edit - Sorry James, this info appears to incorrect, and probably belongs to Frank Thomas Guiver, born in Rochford in 1890. Edited 24 May , 2020 by alf mcm Additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 James, According to FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl Winifred E. Guiver was born in Romford in 4th quarter of 1915. Eileen H. Guiver was born in Romford in 1st quarter of 1917. A check of their birth certificates way show if Frank was in the Army. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 (edited) There's a Francis T Guiver, b 1879. Place of birth Romford. Mother Harriet. No 340607 Royal Garrison Artillery. He and his father William were both Railwaymen. This article from May 2nd 1924 might be interesting. Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. Edited 24 May , 2020 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2020 Thanks for the quick replies. I had seen the reference to the RGA on the National Archives site (a medal card) but no mention of place of birth or mother. Whats the source there please? Good idea on the birth certificates - thank you. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 He is in Lives of the First World War as Francis T Guiver https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F1495504 https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/1495504 That gives various brothers and a marriage in 1913 to Caroline E Everett. It also says he died in 1928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 9 minutes ago, condronjames said: Thanks for the quick replies. I had seen the reference to the RGA on the National Archives site (a medal card) but no mention of place of birth or mother. Whats the source there please? Good idea on the birth certificates - thank you. James Alf mcm put the Findmypast link above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 And there is a detailed Ancestry Tree - click - that includes his brothers, Plus his South African War Service. (assuming that the tree is correct) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 Caroline E. Guiver married Patrick James in Orsett in 1929. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/categories/34/?name=CAROLINE_GUIVER&location=3257.3250&marriage=1929&marriage_x=0-0-0_1-0&name_x=1_1&priority=united-kingdom Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 11 minutes ago, corisande said: And there is a detailed Ancestry Tree - click - that includes his brothers, Plus his South African War Service. (assuming that the tree is correct) Hmmm. Something not quite right, but I just can't put my finger on it... "Death December 1928, Colchester, England. Residence 1935 Crossways, Ardleigh" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 4 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Hmmm. Something not quite right, but I just can't put my finger on it. I think if you check it, you will find that it is one of his children marrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2020 1 hour ago, sadbrewer said: There's a Francis T Guiver, b 1879. Place of birth Romford. Mother Harriet. No 340607 Royal Garrison Artillery. He and his father William were both Railwaymen. This article from May 2nd 1924 might be interesting. Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. Fantastic - thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2020 26 minutes ago, corisande said: And there is a detailed Ancestry Tree - click - that includes his brothers, Plus his South African War Service. (assuming that the tree is correct) The South Africa War record shows an F Guiver of 1st Essex, so not conclusive that that’s him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 22 minutes ago, alf mcm said: Caroline E. Guiver married Patrick James in Orsett in 1929. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/categories/34/?name=CAROLINE_GUIVER&location=3257.3250&marriage=1929&marriage_x=0-0-0_1-0&name_x=1_1&priority=united-kingdom Regards, Alf McM The Francis Guiver who died in Q4 1928 was only 44 years old, do was probably Frank Guiver, born Q4 1895 in Rochford. The Frank we are interested was born in Romford. Perhaps someone has mis-read a birth certificate? 'Our' Frank and Caroline may have unofficially divorced. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2020 29 minutes ago, alf mcm said: The Francis Guiver who died in Q4 1928 was only 44 years old, do was probably Frank Guiver, born Q4 1895 in Rochford. The Frank we are interested was born in Romford. Perhaps someone has mis-read a birth certificate? 'Our' Frank and Caroline may have unofficially divorced. Regards, Alf McM Thanks Alf. What’s the theory in the divorce? Because she remarried so quickly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Hmmm. Something not quite right, but I just can't put my finger on it... "Death December 1928, Colchester, England. Residence 1935 Crossways, Ardleigh" I think the tree has a mistake in relation to Dr Guiver....as far as I can see he was practising into the 1940's and is not the same man. Edit...Francis Guiver is registered as born in Romford...there is another Frank Guiver born in Rochford in 1895. Edit 2....apologies....Francis born 1879 Romford Frank Thomas born 1890 Rochford. Frank b 1895 Rochford. A Frank Guiver is in the papers as a medical student in 1920, living at Cumberland Lodge, Ponders End. Our Frank at 41 yrs of age would probably be too old....bearing in mind it's a big career change from Railwayman. Edit3....there is a Rochford death for a Frank Guiver, aged 4, which may rule out the 1895 born Frank. Edited 24 May , 2020 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 1 hour ago, condronjames said: Thanks Alf. What’s the theory in the divorce? Because she remarried so quickly? It wasn't unknown for couples to go their own way. My great-grandmother left Dundee for Canada and got married. The marriage certificate said she was a widow. When she got back to Dundee with her new husband, her first husband was also there, alive and well! However, Sadbrewer's comments above may that the wrong age was entered on the 1928 death certificate. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2020 So we know Frank was in the Royal Garrison Artillery. I assume his time with this unit would have been solely UK based? To have been gassed, as per the family story, he’d have had to also serve with another unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 (edited) No...RGA served abroad too, although I did see a F Guiver being discharged from the Guards....I'll check it out. Edited 24 May , 2020 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 The Fold3/WFA pension records for men who survived and were pensioned are out next. It is possible that Frank will be amongst them. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2020 26 minutes ago, alf mcm said: The Fold3/WFA pension records for men who survived and were pensioned are out next. It is possible that Frank will be amongst them. Regards, Alf McM Thanks Alf. Any idea when they will he released and through what site please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 They were supposed to be relased later this year on Fold3 {you need to have an account with them} and W.F.A. {you need to be a member}, although with the current situation, it's anyone's guess when. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 24 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2020 1 hour ago, sadbrewer said: No...RGA served abroad too, although I did see a F Guiver being discharged from the Guards....I'll check it out. Thanks - appreciate that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 (edited) I think we can write off the Doctor. Attached is an obituary....born 1898....d 1961. Edited 24 May , 2020 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 24 May , 2020 Share Posted 24 May , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, condronjames said: Thanks - appreciate that James, I can't just find the Guards reference again, but I can highly recommend that you take the Ancestry subscription and view the tree that Corisande provided the link to....it will be a goldmine for you, and I would imagine a good contact with a cousin. Just for interest, his Brother Herbert was killed in the war. Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. Edited 24 May , 2020 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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