Looking for William Read - stoker R.N.

[Tawhiri]

I am currently trying to resolve the first marriage of my wife's great-grandfather's cousin, and am having difficulty with finding any matches for her first husband, William Frederick Read. Lucy Ellen (the marriage register states Ellen Lucy, but on both her baptism and second marriage records she is Lucy Ellen) Herbert married William Frederick Read on 11 April 1908 in All Hallows church in Bromley, London, England. At the time of their marriage Lucy is 24, and William is 25, which is consistent with Lucy's birth in January 1884, and implies that William was most likely born in 1882. William's occupation is described in the marriage register as 'Stoker R.N.', which I have taken to mean that at the time they were married he was a stoker in the Royal Navy. The register is signed by Lucy's grandfather and mother, which also suggests that William's parents were not physically present when they married and that he was born somewhere outside of London.

 

Lucy takes some finding in the 1911 Census, where she shows up as Nellie Read, aged 27, and living in Bow, London, England. Rather helpfully she has also filled in the details of her husband, who's occupation is given as 'Stoker H.M. Navy', but the enumerator has subsequently run a pencil through his name which suggests that he was not actually physically present at that address on the night of the census. 

Lucy subsequently married James Hall on 4 April 1915 in St Mary's church in Bromley St Leonard, London, England, and is described as a widow at the time of this second marriage. Sadly, James died on the Somme 18 months later in October 1916, and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing of the Somme, leaving Lucy a widow for the second time.

Clearly William Read had to have died at some point between April 1911 and April 1915, but I am struggling on several fronts. The first thing is that I cannot find a William Read that fits my assumed birth year of 1882 for him in the Royal Navy ratings’ service records in the National Archives, even if I try different variations on both his surname (Read, Reed, and Reid), and his first names given in the marriage register. A search on the CWGC site for early war deaths brings up two possibilities, Frederick William Read (1618U) who was a Stoker lost in the torpedoing of HMS Aboukir on 22 September 1914, and William Read (312525) who was a Petty Officer Stoker lost on HMS Good Hope in the Battle of Coronel on 1 November 1914. I have discounted Frederick William Read because his wife is named as Georgeana Read, living in Gorleston on Sea, Norfolk, in the Royal Navy and Royal Marine War Graves Roll for 1914-1919. This leaves me with William Read who died on HMS Good Hope, but his next of kin in the War Graves Roll is given as his brother, when if he had been married I would have expected it to be his wife. His service record also shows that he was born in Bristol in March 1881, so off by one year from my assumed birth year for William.

 

I have found a pension record for Lucy's second husband that names her as his wife, but are there comparable records for Royal Navy personnel who died in WW1? I am assuming that if William Read died during the war that his wife would be eligible for a pension even if she subsequently remarried. 

 

The only other possibility is that William died before the start of the war, as I am wondering about the gap of only six months between possibly losing her first husband and marrying her second husband, but then I am back to the issue of finding a William Read who was born in 1882 in the Royal Navy ratings’ service records in the National Archives.     

 

Edited 22 May , 2020 by Tawhiri

[charlie962]

I think the crossing out on 1911 census has a blue pencil word below head which reads 'dead' ? ie died in 1911

 

Charlie

 

image courtesy FindmyPast census 1911 from National Archives

 

Edited 22 May , 2020 by charlie962

[Tawhiri]

Charlie962

 

Thank you for catching that, I didn't see it on the copy of the Census entry I had until you pointed it out, but I would agree with you, it says he is dead. Back to square one again I think, William Read is proving to be a very elusive man to find. Apparently serving in the Royal Navy as a stoker, yet at his home address and then somehow dying around the time of the 1911 Census, otherwise why would his wife have filled out his name on the 1911 Census form. I was wondering if there was a list of pre-war Royal Navy deaths around somewhere, but it is looking more like he died at home while on leave.

 

It might just be a case of having to trawl through all the service records for the William Read's who were stokers in the National Archives to see if I can narrow down the possibilities. Finding Lucy's two cousins who were also in Royal Navy around this time was simple by comparison.    

 

 

Edited 23 May , 2020 by Tawhiri

[charlie962]

39 minutes ago, Tawhiri said:

but it is looking more like he died at home while on leave.

Or perhaps he died whilst serving and his wife wasn't informed until after she'd done the census return ? It was the first time householders completed it themselves so there were many errors for enumerators to correct.

 

Theres a file of Overseas Deaths somewhere.......

 

Charlie

[Tawhiri]

The more I look into this, the more I am becoming convinced that there is a certain economy with the truth that is recorded in both the marriage register and the 1911 Census on both sides. I certainly know that is true with regards to the fictitious deceased father of Lucy Ellen. The two witnesses are her grandfather and her mother, who although married is using her maiden name of Herbert. The curious thing is that although Frederick was supposedly born in London, there are no witnesses from his side of the family.

 

The biggest issue still, however, is that a weekend of trawling through the Royal Navy ratings’ service records on Fold3, which is free this weekend, and looking through all the stokers born in either 1881, 1882, 1883, and 1884 and who served pre-war has failed to turn up a single credible candidate for William, which is leading me towards the conclusion that he never actually served in the Royal Navy despite what it says in both the marriage register and the 1911 Census return. I note that there is currently a thread running in the 'Soldiers and their units' forum in which a comment is made about cases of spouses who are both still living, yet are conveniently widowed when it comes to marrying again, and I am rather wondering if that is the case here too.    

 

Might just have to put this one to bed for the time being, unless anything new turns up.

Edited 24 May , 2020 by Tawhiri

[seaJane]

He is not coming to the surface on familysearch.org either (which I use because 1. free and 2. when 1901 and 1911 censuses have been included the transcriptions are available).

[Tawhiri]

Yes, I had the same problem when looking for him in the 1891, 1901, or 1911 Census. His father's name is also given as William Frederick Read in the marriage register, with an occupation of platelayer, which I gather is another term for a railway trackman. I can find a couple of William Read's with a father also named William living in the London area in the 1891 Census, but the one living closest to Bromley in Forest Gate has an occupation as a carpenter, although the son would be about the right age (8 in the 1891 Census, implying a birth year of 1883 or 1882).

Edited 26 May , 2020 by Tawhiri