Imperial Service Medal awarded ?

[stuart rowles]

Harry Bray Rowles was born on Saturday, 28th November 1874 at Manchester the youngest child of Robert & Emma Rowles (née Jenkins), a ‘Pattern Card Maker’.

Click to choose

He joined the ‘General Post Office’ in October 1889 as a ‘Telegraph Messenger’, and in May 1891 is listed at Manchester as a ‘Telegraphist’.

 

He married Annie Gertrude Bracewell in 1899 at St. Simon’s Church, Salford. Annie Gertrude died in 1920 at Manchester, age 44.
Harry remarried in 1921 to Alice Maud Morland at East Ward, Westmorland. Alice Maud died on 30th April 1956 at 31 Everest Drive, Blackpool, age 68.

 

In the 1911 census he is age 36 and living with his wife of 11 years, Annie Gertrude at 35 Clarendon Road, West Chorlton, Manchester. His occupation is ‘G.P.O. Telegraphist’.

He enrolled in the Royal Naval Reserve on 5th September 1914. He gave his address as 43 Kenwood Road, Stretford, Manchester. 

He served on HMS ‘Vernon’, HMS ‘Victory’ and HMS ‘Kingfisher’. He was discharged on 4th September 1919.

In the ‘1939 Register’ he is living at 12 Hortree Road, Stretford, Manchester. His occupation is given as ‘Retired Assistant Superintendant’.

Harry Bray Rowles died on Tuesday, 26th May, 1953 at Park Hospital, Davyhulme, Lancashire. His home address was given as 12 Hortree Road, Stretford, Manchester, age 78.

 

He served all his working life with the Post Office and I would have expected to find an entry in the London Gazette for an 'Imperial Service Medal'.

Should he have been given one or is the entry for him missing. Or have I missed it.

[travers61]

I have looked at the ISM before & his is part of the wiki page about it:

 

It is presented to selected civil servants who complete at least 25 years service, upon their retirement.

 

So maybe not as automatic as I had thought.

[Falloden]

My great-aunt worked initially for the National Telephone Service and then from 1912 for GPO Telephones as a Telephonist Supervisor. She retired in 1940 through ill-health and I have her ISM, a George VI issued medal: 

[KizmeRD]

Kingfisher was a hired trawler based at Yarmouth and used to support seaplane operations in the North Sea. Vernon and Victory are Portsmouth based training establishments.

Michael

[aim]

I'm sure the Imperial Service Medal was awarded to junior administrative civil servants - senior grades were eligible for the Imperial Service Order.

 

Scientific and Industrial civil servants did not get anything - I don't know why.

 

aim

[horatio2]

On 22/05/2020 at 07:54, KizmeRD said:

Kingfisher was a hired trawler based at Yarmouth and used to support seaplane operations in the North Sea

HMS KINGFISHER was actually purchased (not hired) for the seaplane role which she seems to have performed from April 1915 until about April 1916, using her seaplane in anti-Zeppelin operations across the North Sea from Yarmouth.

However, she additionally was (from 24 Aug 15) the nominal commissioned parent ship for the Yarmouth Base (HMS KINGFISHER), performing this role uintil 15 June 1918. On that date KINGFISHER was re-named ADELE and the hired Yarmouth drifter ADELE was re-named KINGFISHER and became the nominal ship for the Yarmouth Base.

There arises, from the dual role of KINGFISHER, the problem of identifying precisely where a man served: was he serving in the Yarmouth Base or actually in the trawler? Or even in both!

In this case (WTO ROWLES) I would need to see his record in detail to make a judgement as to where he served. I think he was demobbed from KINGFISHER in 1919 and that certainly refers to the Base and not to the nominal drifter.

By September 1918 KINGFISHER (now named ADELE) had moved away from Yarmouth and was based at Portland.

I trust that is sufficiently complicated!

[PRC]

32 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

HMS KINGFISHER was actually purchased (not hired) for the seaplane role which she seems to have performed from April 1915 until about April 1916, using her seaplane in anti-Zeppelin operations across the North Sea from Yarmouth.

 

I really am a novice in this area, but I had the trawler down as HMT Kingfisher even pre-1918.and the base as HMS Kingfisher, which if correct would make it marginally less confusing.

 

Did a quick Google search so as not to make myself even more of an idiot than usual and came up with this forum thread. I don't know how reliable the sources are, but provides a bit more information on how the Kingfisher was used for seaplane support 1915/16.

https://www.crossandcockade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=242&title=the-story-of-a-north-sea-air-station

 

Cheers,

Peter

[horatio2]

The whole business of nominal ships for naval shore establishments is confusing which is probably why the system was abandoned from 1959 (!) and nominal ships in commission were no longer required for a commissioned shore establishment.

HMT does identify a trawler as as commissioned RN ship (= HMS KINGFISHER). Most Admiralty-hired trawlers and drifters were commissioned and, therefore, HMS (or, for some, HMT or HMD). Just to confuse matters further, men serving at RNAS (Great) Yarmouth were borne on the books of HMS PRESIDENT II, whereas men serving in the (Great) Yarmouth Auxiliary Patrol Base were borne on the books of HMS KINGFISHER (the commisioned ship 'HMS-bit' represented by the trawler (drifter from 1918) HMS KINGFISHER.