oldmisog Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 I've had my grandfather's war medals for many years that were stored in his Queen Mary 1914 brass box. To my shame I've only just noticed that he faintly etched the inside of the lid of the box with his personal details, wounding and award for gallantry. I have some questions that I'm hoping someone can answer. Firstly was it commonplace for soldiers to inscribe these tins with their details? I understand the tins were widely used for storing photos etc. long after the original contents were used so he obviously carried the box throughout his service. But am I right in guessing that the details he had inscribed were an insurance that he could be identified if killed? The other head-scratcher is that he has etched 'Awarded Military Medal 1916' on the tin lid. However his medal card indicates the MM was awarded in 1917, indeed his London Gazette entry is for 12/12/17 and I believe the action leading to the award would date to 2-3 months before. So why the huge delay? Any help would be most gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 (edited) Hello Would his name be G F Scarsbrook? 17th County of London Regiment I think were part of 141st (5th London) Brigade Part of The 47th Divison Moved to 140 Bde in February 1918 The 47th Divison book has this - G F Scarsbrook MM dated 30/9/17 Cheers John Edited 20 May , 2020 by johnmelling1979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 George Frederick Scarsbook 570177 His 4 numbered Reg no 4581 is his previous number in the same Regiment, the 17th Served from 10\3\1915 until 15\1\1919 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildaremark Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 He might not have etched the writing - might have been one of his children who might not have been as accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 1 minute ago, kildaremark said: He might not have etched the writing - might have been one of his children who might not have been as accurate My thought as well. The writing seems to have been done by the same hand...but who by and when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 (edited) All info I found so far does tie in with the above writing on the item Edited 20 May , 2020 by johnmelling1979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmisog Posted 20 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2020 Thank you everyone for your input. I can confirm the etching is all in my grandad's hand. He was a great chronicler and I have several books that he notated with family events from 1910 through to 1940. So it's still a bit odd that he got the date of his MM wrong. As an aside I wasn't aware that the date of the MM award was 30/9/17 (thank you John Melling for that). I have tried for years to find a citation but I believe the records were destroyed in WW2. Can anyone tell me the precise location of this regiment on that date in late September 1917 - this would be a wonderful addition to my knowledge of his service even if the exact circumstances of his gallantry may never be known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 Look for War Diary on Ancestry uk or National Archives. Both may be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 I have the 43 minutes ago, oldmisog said: Thank you everyone for your input. I can confirm the etching is all in my grandad's hand. He was a great chronicler and I have several books that he notated with family events from 1910 through to 1940. So it's still a bit odd that he got the date of his MM wrong. As an aside I wasn't aware that the date of the MM award was 30/9/17 (thank you John Melling for that). I have tried for years to find a citation but I believe the records were destroyed in WW2. Can anyone tell me the precise location of this regiment on that date in late September 1917 - this would be a wonderful addition to my knowledge of his service even if the exact circumstances of his gallantry may never be known. Give us a rough date, as I am already looking at the 47 Division book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmisog Posted 20 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2020 John Melling said the 47th Divison book mentioned G F Scarsbrook MM dated 30/9/17. I don't have any other info sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 (edited) Here some for now, taken from the Divisional book, not the war diary which would be another good placed to look 5th September 1917- 141th Brigade was sent to the Busseboom area 8-10th The brigade moved up and relieved the 25th Division Bellewarde Ridge Inverness Corpse area , 15 September, with German counter attack on the 16th 21st September The Divison started entraining at Godewaersvelde, Caestre and Cassel, to transfer further south Remained for a few days in villages around Maroeuil near Arras Relieved the 63 RN Division and took over the Gavelle - Oppy front With headquarters at Victory Camp, Ecurie Then a quiet period before .. as to quote ! 11 October 1917 "The first organised hate in the sector" Oppy Village John Edited 20 May , 2020 by johnmelling1979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 8 hours ago, oldmisog said: in his Queen Mary 1914 brass box. 3 hours ago, johnmelling1979 said: Served from 10\3\1915 The issue of the box seems to predate his service so was it actually his in the first place? The boxes may have been distributed after Christmas 1914 but I would have thought only to those overseas. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 8 hours ago, oldmisog said: I've had my grandfather's war medals for many years that were stored in his Queen Mary 1914 brass box. To my shame I've only just noticed that he faintly etched the inside of the lid of the box with his personal details, wounding and award for gallantry. I have some questions that I'm hoping someone can answer. Firstly was it commonplace for soldiers to inscribe these tins with their details? I understand the tins were widely used for storing photos etc. long after the original contents were used so he obviously carried the box throughout his service. But am I right in guessing that the details he had inscribed were an insurance that he could be identified if killed? The other head-scratcher is that he has etched 'Awarded Military Medal 1916' on the tin lid. However his medal card indicates the MM was awarded in 1917, indeed his London Gazette entry is for 12/12/17 and I believe the action leading to the award would date to 2-3 months before. So why the huge delay? Any help would be most gratefully received. I have two tins inscribed by the original owners. One is etched as is yours the other has a pencil inscription with owners number and name and Armentieres 1914; It is unusual for tins to be personally inscribed in my experience. I am not aware that those who enlisted after Xmas 1914 received the Xmas Gift Tin. They were not only issued to those in France but also those in uniform at home. POWs and relatives of those KiA in 1914 also received tins often sent on after the end of the War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD ROBIN HOOD Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 Greetings from Sherwood Forest Isn't it a PRINCESS Mary Gift Tin ?. I have had several with the owners details scratched on them but I havn't seen one with that much detail. Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmisog Posted 20 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2020 He actually entered France on 9/3/15 I believe. The first inscription on the tin is April 15 so I'm guessing that's when the tin was acquired by him or when he became active. If you're saying he couldn't have been issued the tin personally three months earlier at xmas (even though he would have been training in the UK then) he might have been given it by someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 Someone may very well have given it to him.. Hope my above date and places help you I have not looked in the actual war diary ! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmisog Posted 20 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2020 Huge thanks to you all for your responses and expertise. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 22 May , 2020 Share Posted 22 May , 2020 On 20/05/2020 at 22:52, oldmisog said: He actually entered France on 9/3/15 I believe. The first inscription on the tin is April 15 so I'm guessing that's when the tin was acquired by him or when he became active. If you're saying he couldn't have been issued the tin personally three months earlier at xmas (even though he would have been training in the UK then) he might have been given it by someone else? If he was in uniform and serving in UK then yes he would have received the Gift Tin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 July , 2020 Share Posted 26 July , 2020 I have read that there were some great delays in distribution, and some tins didn't arrive for months after Christmas. Here is some of the info I've read on the Imperial War Museum website - There were also supply issues when it came to some of the gifts within the boxes, for example, the demand for tinder lighters outweighed supply so a ‘bullet pencil’ was given instead. Other items were also in short supply and were replaced with items such as tobacco pouches, shaving brushes, combs and purses. Those which were not distributed until after Christmas were sent out with a card wishing the recipient a 'victorious new year'. The wounded on leave or in hospital, nurses, and the widows or parents of those killed were also entitled to the gift. Prisoners of war at the time had theirs reserved until they were repatriated. Great efforts were made to distribute the gifts in time for Christmas, and huge demands were made on an already stretched postal service. More than 355,000 were successfully delivered by the deadline. As time pressed on, a shortage of brass meant that many entitled personnel did not receive their gift until as late as the summer of 1916 A gift for Christmas: the story of Princess Mary’s Gift Fund, 1914 by Diana Condell in IWM Review (No. 4–1989) p 69–78. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmisog Posted 26 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2020 Thank you very much for your input Barrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 July , 2020 Share Posted 26 July , 2020 Certainly! Thank you for honoring his service (and for your own). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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