French Pilot with British Military Medal

[CEDRICtus]

My great-grand father, Charles Joseph Chambaz, was part of the French air force during WW1, first as gunner and subsequently as a pilot. He fought in the Escadrille SPA92 from March 18 through October 18. We have an official statement that he was given the Military Medal during that timeframe, and hold the said medal, but cannot find records of what was done to achieve this.

 

The French archives sadly do not have records of that specific squadron's activities as the flight logs seem to have been lost/damaged, so I was hoping to have more luck with British records. Is there any data base or digitised archives that may enlighten my search?

 

Thanks in advance.  

[scottmarchand]

Do you know if it was the British Military Medal - or the French 'Medal Militaire'? There would not typically be records of specific citations if it was the British version to a foreign recipient as they were often sent as a block of say 50 or 100 unnamed for distribution as a moral type award by the french commands. The same is true of French and belgian,italian MM's to Commonwealth forces. Or it may be something like 'For good work in support of the joint operations between May-June 1917' sort of thing.

 

Howard Williamson wrote  a 3 vol. set on the MM and another that details foreign awards. http://bookshop.nationalarchives.gov.uk/MMWarLists/The-Military-Medal-Awarded-to-the-Allied-Armies-by-the-British-Government-During-The-Great-war-1914-to-1920/

[CEDRICtus]

54 minutes ago, scottmarchand said:

Do you know if it was the British Military Medal - or the French 'Medal Militaire'?

 

It is definitely the BMM with George V on one side, and "Bravery in the Field" on the back. Thanks for the expectation setting. The fact that he was an officer and was handed the BMM rather than a British Military Cross may weigh in your hypothesis. 

I will give a go at the above book. nonetheless...

[Keith_history_buff]

His name is indeed transcribed in the aforementioned secondary source. He appears on War Office list no 46 dated 17 October 1919. I have transcribed below the details from Williamson's book of MMs awarded to allied personnel.

CHAMBAZ, Adjudant Joseph Charles, au 2e Groupe d'Aviation à l'Escadrille Spa 92

 

The primary source for this is:
WO 388/6 - British decorations awarded to the following Allied armies

Reference:	WO 388/6/6
Description:	British to foreign: France - List Numbers 31 - 72.
Date:	1918 Nov 8 - 1922 May 8

 

 

These are lists, and do not provide citations as to the act of gallantry.

 

 

[CEDRICtus]

38 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

His name is indeed transcribed in the aforementioned secondary source. He appears on War Office list no 46 dated 17 October 1919. I have transcribed below the details from Williamson's book of MMs awarded to allied personnel.

CHAMBAZ, Adjudant Joseph Charles, au 2e Groupe d'Aviation à l'Escadrille Spa 92

 

This is already amazing to have the British side of the nomination (we had a French record calling out that foreign award) and therefore source... I suppose you have no lead as to where to find the cause of that medal.

[scottmarchand]

Given the covered time frame of the awards, 'atta boys' for the end of the war. Mutual back patting versus specific acts.

Edited 18 May , 2020 by scottmarchand
typo

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, CEDRICtus said:

The fact that he was an officer and was handed the BMM rather than a British Military Cross may weigh in your hypothesis. 

Was he not still a Sergeant (adjutant) pilot at the time of the award ?

[Keith_history_buff]

36 minutes ago, CEDRICtus said:

 

This is already amazing to have the British side of the nomination (we had a French record calling out that foreign award) and therefore source... I suppose you have no lead as to where to find the cause of that medal.

 

  

1 hour ago, Keith_history_buff said:

These are lists, and do not provide citations as to the act of gallantry.

 

The act of gallantry was recorded by the Armée française, in the French language, and this was not passed on. All that the War Office in London received was the names of the recipients.

If it is the case that your great grandfather has, in addition to his <<matricule militaire>> a file of papers that have survived and are in the custody of the SHAT, then perhaps it may be recorded on the file, if there has not been extensive "weeding" of his file.

This is a hypothetical question. I am aware that some soldiers' files exist - the file for Louis François Alexandre Volant was accessed on the British genealogy programme "Who Do You Think You Are" - but I do not know how this is done. Perhaps asking the question on the francophone forum pages14-18 could give you advice on determining whether his file has survived, and how it could be accessed.

 

[Keith_history_buff]

4 hours ago, scottmarchand said:

There would not typically be records of specific citations if it was the British version to a foreign recipient as they were often sent as a block of say 50 or 100 unnamed for distribution as a morale type award by the french commands. The same is true of French and belgian,italian gallantry medals to Commonwealth forces. Or it may be something like 'For good work in support of the joint operations between May-June 1917' sort of thing. [Edits in red font by Keith_H_B]

Scott's response to your original post is absolutely correct. Ironically, your best hope to find the <<acte de bravoure décrit par la citation de médaille>> would appear to be his file in the French archives.

[CEDRICtus]

15 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

 

 The act of gallantry was recorded by the Armée française, in the French language, and this was not passed on. All that the War Office in London received was the names of the recipients. If it is the case that your great grandfather has, in addition to his <<matricule militaire>> a file of papers that have survived and are in the custody of the SHAT, then perhaps it may be recorded on the file, if there has not been extensive "weeding" of his file.

 

Thanks. 

I have indeed been able to access the Fiche Matriculaire where there is a reference to the Military Medal. However, it comes only with a date and no qualitative information. I have also a document from the French War Ministry certifying the attribution of that medal, but again with no room for context. I am unaware of what SHAT stands for, but if you spell it out for me that would be great:)

[Keith_history_buff]

Hello Cédric,

 

In answer to your question

SHAT - Service historique de l'armée de terre

 

I did raise the question as to whether forum members, who had successfully found the paper records in the custody of SHAT, could provide their story, but nobody has responded with any success stories.

 

Thanks,

Keith