J R Samuel - Shot down 1917 then P.O.W.

[MontroseAir]

Currently researching J R Samuel who was shot down whilst in a RE8 with 34 Squadron.  His pilot was H R Davies, both survived and were captured, spending the remainder of the war as prisoners in Karlsruhe.  He was then repatriated on 2.1.1919.

 

Prior to service as an observer in the Royal Flying Corps he served with the Welsh Regiment.

 

An information on where he was shot down and by whom would be greatly appreciated.

 

M

[charlie962]

33 minutes ago, MontroseAir said:

remainder of the war as prisoners in Karlsruhe.

 

Welcome to the Forum M

Have you looked at the 3 ICRC cards and then their backing sheets ?

Taken Cambrai 14/4/17, to Karlsruhe via Douai but note of trf to Crefeld (ne pas communique ??) and mention of arrival at Holzminden

 

Charlie

Edited 13 May , 2020 by charlie962

[Coldstreamer]

welcome to the forum

 

its always worth searching  the forum for more info  - heres a blast from the past

 

Edited 13 May , 2020 by Coldstreamer

[charlie2]

2 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Taken Cambrai 14/4/17, to Karlsruhe via Douai but note of trf to Crefeld (ne pas communique ??) and mention of arrival at Holzminden

and then transferred from Holzminden to Schweidnitz.

Charlie2

[MontroseAir]

On 13/05/2020 at 17:12, MontroseAir said:

Currently researching J R Samuel who was shot down whilst in a RE8 with 34 Squadron.  His pilot was H R Davies, both survived and were captured, spending the remainder of the war as prisoners in Karlsruhe.  He was then repatriated on 2.1.1919.

 

Prior to service as an observer in the Royal Flying Corps he served with the Welsh Regiment.

 

An information on where he was shot down and by whom would be greatly appreciated.

 

M

Many thanks for your help everyone.  All new information for the gentleman I am assisting.  He is the Great Nephew of J R Samuel.

[Jasta72s]

Hi MontroseAir, 

 

I assume the problem was solved meanwhile but if not then read the following lines. 

 

The loss of J R Samuel was sometimes attributed to Lt Schäfer (19th of 30 victories) but Schäfers claim was hours later p.m.

Some believed Lt. Frommherz (2nd of 32 victories) was downing the airplane of Davies & Samuel near Ribecourt. He got B.E. 2567, I think. 

However, the most likely solution is Flak. Flak Batterie 507 and 709 and Flakzug 30 made a claim with location Sains-les-Marquion.

This location is situated only a little north of Havrincourt where Davies & Samuel force landed. 

Furthermore it was said Samuel himself reported Flak hits in a report after war. 

 

You should ask anybody with access to the second, the new edition of Henshaw's The Sky Their Battlefield.

 

 

[Starlight]

On 06/02/2021 at 19:27, Jasta72s said:

 

You should ask anybody with access to the second, the new edition of Henshaw's The Sky Their Battlefield.

In case you haven't seen what Trevor Henshaw wrote in "The Sky Their Battlefield", here is a summary of what Trevor has to say about the loss of 34 Squadron's RE8 Serial  Number A78 on the 14th April 1917. During an escort photography sortie after leaving its base at Villers-Bretonneux at 9:20 am, the aircraft of Lt H R Davies (pilot) and Lt J R Samuel (observer) was attacked by an enemy aircraft which they drove off (smoking as it entered clouds?). Their aircraft was then hit in the engine by AA fire at 3,000 feet and the pilot forced to land east of Harquicourt, near Cambrai. Both men were taken POW and their aircraft captured.

 

I hope this helps

Steve

[Jasta72s]

Thanks - but I know these facts. IMHO MontroseAir needs info from the new edition where Samuel's detailed report should be included. 

[Dolphin]

I'm going off on a tangent, but it's interesting (to me, anyway) that RE8 A78 was one of the first batch of the type, and was built at the Royal Aircraft Factory at Farnborough.  It featured the early small fin on the tail, and had no under fin leading to the tail skid.  Originally allocated to No 52 Sqn, it was transferred to No 34 Sqn with all of No 52's RE8s in February 1917 as RFC Headquarters was concerned that the RE8 was proving difficult to fly when in the hands of No 52 Sqn's inexperienced pilots.  In return, No 34 Sqn's BE2e aircraft were transferred to No 52 Sqn, who flew the type until re-equipped with the RE8 in May, though the replacement machines featured enlarged fins both above and below the fuselage.

 

Gareth

Edited 12 February , 2021 by Dolphin

[Starlight]

5 hours ago, Jasta72s said:

Thanks - but I know these facts. IMHO MontroseAir needs info from the new edition where Samuel's detailed report should be included. 

This was taken from TSTBII.

[Jasta72s]

Quote

This was taken from TSTBII.

OK, then this all all for this case.