Noor Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 Hi all, i am trying to put together a full picture of the service of: Cecil Alfred Vistarino ROPER (1883 – 10-July-1947) Lieutenant, Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve Motor Launches Life Elder son of the Alfred Francis Roper and Isobel May (Hoffman). Alfred Roper founded Ladycross as a Roman Catholic Prep school in Sutton Avenue, Seaford in 1891. His brother, Esme Antony Filomeno Roper (Tony), was Headmaster in succession. The school closed in 1977 and was demolished in 1978. One of the teachers was there as well author George Mills (Meredith and Co. King Willow, Minor and Major). Married 1906 Theresa Constance Roberson (divorce 1914 Wife's petition for restitution of conjugal rights [WRCR]. They had a child Iris Eileen Constance Roper (13-July-1908). Married with Ebba Sofia Roper (?) Died Serafimerlasarettet Stocholm 10-Jul-1947. Career Motor Launch ML 36 in command 15-Dec-1915. 1916 arrived home… allowed to return home at own… by SND Egypt. Motor Launch ML 128 in command 14-Jun-1916. Discharge to leave 31-Mar-1919. Demobilized 11-Apr-1919 Navy List 1917 shows him in the Anti-Submarine Division. ----------- I am struggling to understanding what exactly he did during the Great War. Was he involved of any action (ML 128 served under Dover command and took part as well Zeebrugge 4.1918 but I don't think under his command??? Whats that SND Egypt means there? Also was it the case that he requested a transfer under the seaplanes??? Any help or extra information about his service would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 (edited) S.N.O. Egypt = Senior Naval Officer Egypt. He was allowed to return home at his own expense. A.S.D. = Anti Submarine Division. D = Director A.S.D. He was also refused application to transfer to Seaplane branch. Best...Bryan Edited 12 May , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 SNO would mean Senior Naval Officer, suggests he had a sound compassionate case to return. Additionally Fisgard was the Artificer training establishment. I was an Artificer in the RN and there is a good website you can look at, he was therefore training Non Commissioned Officer engineers. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 He claimed Victory and British War Medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 The Artificer website link is https://thefisgardassociation.org/ Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 He was posted to Fisgard for a course of instruction on 30 Oct 1915 presumably as an Acting Sub Lieut. I dont think he was teaching a course Tony, I think he was taking one in preparation for his next appointment to ML36 In Command, on 15Dec 1915. Best... Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 Actually he was promoted to Temporary Lieut on 4 Jun 1915 prior to that ML course. Be nice to view the rest of his Record pls Noor. Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 3 minutes ago, RNCVR said: He was posted to Fisgard for a course of instruction on 30 Oct 1915 presumably as an Acting Sub Lieut. I dont think he was teaching a course Tony, I think he was taking one in preparation for his next appointment to ML36 In Command, on 15Dec 1915. Best... Bryan You are right, I didn't know that non Artificers were trained at Fisgard, I will look into this on our website. Thanks Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 (edited) "Informed he is required for HYDROPHONE duties & is being appointed accordingly 8 Apl 1917." In June'17 he went to ASD, so makes sense he was employed in Anti Sub operations. I have att'd below an example of the very rarely seen 1WW Hydrophone rate badge & a RPPC of an RNVR CPO wearing this rate badge. Now of course Lieut Roper would not have worn this rate badge but his ratings employed in Hydrophones certainly would have. Best.... Bryan RNVR CPO Hydrophone operator....note also the RNVR lettering on his cap badge... Edited 12 May , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 The attached IWM image shows hydrophones being used. Because there are 3 sets in use I suspect this is a training course. Motor Launches carried both hydrophones and depth charges. They would anchor at night in locations that U-boats were known to visit and sit there listening. The equipment could only be used with the engines off. I was a Sonar maintainer in the RN and was involved in many aspects of this work and have an interest in the history of this work which really started in WW1 although it was very primitive and not that successful. I have also downloaded the whole record card from TNA but won't put it on here, only the post originator should do that. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 Thanks Tony & I agree with you, Best...Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 13 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Thanks Tony & I agree with you, Best...Bryan Bryan, do you think it is possible that your picture of the RNVR CPO is the middle trainee in the IWM picture, they look the same to me? Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 Seems to be 4 of them actually Tony, not including the RNR Lieut facing them. I think the first man is a Warrant Officer (4 button pair tunic, 3 sleeve buttons), the fellow behind him looking down appears to be a CPO( gilt tunic buttons in threes), that might be him but I really am unable to tell for certain, might help if he was looking up at the photographer!. Then another guy behind him with hands on headphones, finally the guy with the sweater facing the Lieut. Sure an interesting photo tho, the early days of what was to become Asdic\Sonar. The round disc the chap leaning over on right is holding over the side must be the underwater sound detector? I guess the equipment in those pioneer days was pretty primitive say compared to 2 WW Asdic. Best, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 Actually there are 5 of them Tony, the CPO(or possibly a class III uniform rating) in the white tunic & cap in front of the Officer, he too is wearing headphones. & did you notice the Masonic symbol just visible above the ship's name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 12 May , 2020 Share Posted 12 May , 2020 28 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Actually there are 5 of them Tony, the CPO(or possibly a class III uniform rating) in the white tunic & cap in front of the Officer, he too is wearing headphones. & did you notice the Masonic symbol just visible above the ship's name? That CPO is quite a scruff, the one in the jumper looks somewhat older. At least one is the instructor, but each equipment set is connected to the 3 on the left, maybe all instructors, we will never know. The round disc is certainly the sound receiver, we would call it a transducer, pretty small though. I worked on a WW2 sonar and the transducer was about 3ft in dia. The later sonar I worked on had 10 discs about the size of the discshown but all set in a single column and there were 32 columns set in a circle. I had noticed the symbol above the name and thought it was a ship's crest but looking closer it could well be a masonic symbol, strange. All in all a very interesting picture and post. Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted 13 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2020 Thank you so much for all the information shared. In respect of his service file, this part was the only one that I was able to download from the Ancestry. Thank you again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 If you want the whole document that is available from TNA I am happy to send it to you by message. Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 31 minutes ago, Talesofaseadog said: whole document that is available from TNA Tony, I would be interested to know what this "whole document" is, if not the ADM 337 page posted at #1 by Noor. The top half of that page is, of course, the record of a different officer (Harold White) https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7715582 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 1 minute ago, horatio2 said: Tony, I would be interested to know what this "whole document" is, if not the ADM 337 page posted at #1 by Noor. The top half of that page is, of course, the record of a different officer (Harold White) https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7715582 You are so right, I just saw the words Motor Boat Reserve, there is no more information, sorry. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talesofaseadog Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 Given that one of the many tasks for Motor Launches appears to be as submarine hunters, I have attached a pdf which includes the previous IWM image of Thrive which was an Admiralty Drifter and some other WW1 anti submarine history. Tony D1_WHackmann_History.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 Thanks, Tony. A most interesting paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 19 hours ago, RNCVR said: & did you notice the Masonic symbol just visible above the ship's name? Is that a Masonic symbol, or is it the lower half of the (lozenge-shaped) ship's badge of a shore establishment to which she was attached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 Sure appears to be a Masonic symbol (not 100% certain of precise name as I am not a Mason) to me Jane, - square & dividers with G in centre. If it was a ship's crest pretty certain it would be mounted on a plaque & I dont see that in the photo, but then again its cut off for the upper part of the symbol. Best...Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 13 May , 2020 Share Posted 13 May , 2020 Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 May , 2020 Share Posted 14 May , 2020 15 hours ago, RNCVR said: Sure appears to be a Masonic symbol (not 100% certain of precise name as I am not a Mason) to me Jane, - square & dividers with G in centre. If it was a ship's crest pretty certain it would be mounted on a plaque & I dont see that in the photo, but then again its cut off for the upper part of the symbol. I agree. Superficially it looks like a 'diamond-shaped' ship's badge (the shapes were not standardised unuil 1919) but any heraldic symbols on the badge would be contained within the border. To me this looks just like the masonic 'square and compasses' with 'G'. I note the boat is the THRIVE, a hired Banff drifter (Net vessel). Her movements are interesting. She was parented by DREEL CASTLE (Falmouth) from 3 Feb 1915; by OSIRIS II (Mudros/Aegean) from 28 Nov 1916; by QUEEN (Taranto) from 5 Nov 1917; by CAESAR (Black Sea/Constantinople) from 1 Oct 1918; and by EUROPA (Mudros/Aegean) from 1 Jan 1919. I would suspect the photo was taken at Falmouth before she went to the Med in late-1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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