Remembering Today:

[domsim]

Remembering Today:

Soldier HUSEYIN HALID IBRAHIM Turkish Army, who died on 16.02.17. Kirk Patrick (Holy Trinity) Churchyard, Isle of Man 

Does anybody know the background to this event? I would be fascinated to know how this man ended up on the Isle of Man.

Thanks

Dominic

[Terry Denham]

There was a PoW camp on the Isle of Man.

[michaeldr]

Less than a month after the out break of war the British started to collect Prisoners of War on the Isle of Man at Douglas Camp and Knockaloe Camp. The latter grew into a massive place and at one time housed 24,450 men. Amongst all the thousands of Austrians and Germans there were 14 Turks held at Douglas and 101 held at Knockaloe.

I have taken this info from an article by Ms Margery West which appeared in The Gallipolian No.76 Winter 1994. Ms West mentions seven Turks who died while in captivity however, as reproduced, her article names only six, including Huseyin Halid Ibrahim who we remember today.

The Turks were buried in Patrick Churchyard which was directly opposite Knockaloe Camp. “The Manx gravedigger of the day (who died only recently [1994]) always related that at the time of the burials, fellow Turkish internees in the camp had insisted that he follow Turkish tradition, the coffin standing vertically. Church authorities would not allow this and so a compromise was reached and the head of each coffin was raised on bricks. After the grave had been dug the area was cleansed with water since the grave digger was of the Christian faith and, in Turkish eyes, an Infidel.”

Patrick Churchyard was the resting place of some 200 prisoners however after 1962 the German graves were transferred to the cemetery on Cannock Chase. The graves remaining are those of the Turks and two Germans of the Jewish faith whose NoK objected to their being moved. There are also some graves belonging to British servicemen who died while on duty at the camp.

By arrangement with the CWGC new headstones were placed on the graves in 1972, the area around the graves cordoned off with posts and chains and a communal stone placed within that area inscribed as follows

Burada I ina dunya

Harbinde Sehid Olan

Yedi Turk yatiyor

Kuhlarina faticha

Here are buried

Turkish internees

who died in the

1914-1918 war

According to an article by the Gallipolian guide and Tour Operator, Gavin Pinar in the latest edition of The Gallipolian these headstones and the communal stone were again replaced in 2003. The inscription on the new stone reads

‘The Graves of Seven Turkish Martyrs whose lives ended

In a PoW Camp in England. Reconstructed and unveiled in 2003’

It is unclear where these men were taken prisoner or even how many of them were soldiers and how many were civilians interned as Enemy Aliens.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[domsim]

Michael

Many thanks for the information. A fascinating story which I was never aware of. It would be very interesting to know the circumstances of the capture of the Turks.

Thanks again

Dominic.

[Terry Denham]

Turkish PoWs were also sent to Canada. We remembered one such Turkish casualty on the Forum last year.

The seven Turks who died on the Isle of Man were as follows.....

AHMET HASAN, Soldier, Turkish Army. 15th July 1918.

Turkish Plot Grave 7

HASAN DERVIS, Soldier, Turkish Army. 18th May 1919.

Turkish Plot Grave 4

HUSEYIN ALI, Soldier, Turkish Army. 20th April 1917.

Turkish Plot Grave 3

HUSEYIN HALID IBRAHIM, Soldier, Turkish Army. 16th February 1917.

Turkish Plot Grave 2

KALAN YEGEN, Soldier, Turkish Army. 9th April 1918.

Turkish Plot Grave 6

MEHMET ALI, Soldier, Turkish Army. 17th September 1917.

Turkish Plot Grave 5

RAMAZAN MEHMET, Soldier, Turkish Army. 17th November 1916.

Turkish Plot Grave 1

[larneman]

Michael,

Thanks for taking the time to share with us this story and by doing so help us to remember another who did not make it home.

Liam

[michaeldr]

Terry,

Thank you for supplying the complete list and I also note that all who died on the Isle of Man are shown as having been soldiers of the Turkish army and not interned civilians

[HUSEYIN ALI, Soldier, Turkish Army. 20th April 1917.

Turkish Plot Grave 3, is the one missing from the ’94 list which I have]

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Nick]

Interesting thread chaps, thanks a lot.

[Hedley Malloch]

Somewhere I read that once there had been a Turkish cemetery on the Western Front in France. Not in the British sector, but in the Franch; that is Champagne, Lorraine or Alsace. The cemetery was cleared in the 1950s and no longer exists. The source named the village.

I cannot for the life of me remember precisely where I read this, but I know roughly the pile of books and papers wherein it is located and when I have a day free I will go through them. I have two great 'I once read something somewhere but now cannot remember where' regrets in my life (or 'Alzheimer Moments' as they are now known) and this is one of them.

Until I read this source I was unaware that there had been any Turkish involvement on the Western Front.

This thread prompts a serious question: What's the difference between a Turkish grave with a CWGC headstone and a Turkish grave in a Turkish military cemetery in somewhere like Gallipoli?

[domsim]

Out of curiosity I did a quick trawl on the National Archives search engine and there are quite a few papers on the Isle of Man camps (and prison camps in general in the First World War) in the papers of the Foreign Office. The most interesting is

FO 383/339 Turkey: Prisoners, 1917

part of the description of the various reports in the file includes;

'Deaths of three Turkish prisoners at Knockaloe: Ramadan Mohamed, H Kalid Ibrahim and Hossein Ali.'

and

'Number and treatment of Turkish prisoners in United Kingdom, including list of rations at Knockaloe and Douglas camps. '

As I'm going up to Kew this weekend I shall try and have a look at the file.

Dominic

[Guest Tosun Saral]

Out of curiosity I did a quick trawl on the National Archives search engine and there are quite a few papers on the Isle of Man camps (and prison camps in general in the First World War) in the papers of the Foreign Office. The most interesting is

FO 383/339 Turkey: Prisoners, 1917

part of the description of the various reports in the file includes;

'Deaths of three Turkish prisoners at Knockaloe: Ramadan Mohamed, H Kalid Ibrahim and Hossein Ali.'

and

'Number and treatment of Turkish prisoners in United Kingdom, including list of rations at Knockaloe and Douglas camps. '

As I'm going up to Kew this weekend I shall try and have a look at the file.

Dominic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Friends I thank you in the name of all Turks sharing your information abaut Turkish soldiers died at British POW camp.I can only read a holy prayer for their souls. My Allah mercy them. I can only write the following verse of Turkish National poet Mehmet Akif Ersoy about Turkish soldiers died in Gallipoli.

For The Martyrs Of Canakkale

Shot down, on their spotlessly clean foreheads they lie,

For the sake of Crescent what suns are setting, O God!

Hey Soldier! Who has fallen on the ground for this land!

It would be worth their while

For our ancestors to descend from heaven

And kiss your unsullied forehead!

How great you are; our religion is saved by your blood;

Only the lions of the Battle of Bedr were as glorious.

Who could dig the grave that won't be too small for you?

`Come', if I say, `Let's bury you into History!'

You won't be contained in it.

That book isn't large enough

For the epochs you played havoc with.

Only eternity can contain you.

Saying, `this is your tomstone'

If I could place the Kaaba on your head,

And listening to the divine inspiration of my soul

Write down your epitaph,

Then, if I could take the voult of heaven

As if it was a woollen cloak

And cover your bleeding tomb

With all the planets.

If I could build with April clouds

A dome over your tomb,

And extend the seven starred Pleiades from there;

You, enwrapped with your blood 'neath the chandelier

While lying there,

If I could bring the moon to your graveside

And make it attend on you as your keeper

Until daybreak,

And then, if I could fill your chandelier to the brim

With dawn;

If I could wrap round your wound

In the evenings with tulles of sunset,

Even then I could not say

I have done enough

To cherish your blessed memory.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Tosum - I see you are a recent arrival to our Forum - welcome and thanks for sharing the words of Mehmet Akif Ersoy.

Whilst I realise Turkish involvement in WW1 was not confined to the Canakkale War ... you will find many on the Forum with a great interest in the Gallipoli Campaign from both an Allied and Turkish perspective.

[michaeldr]

Tosun,

Welcome to the G W F and thanks for the opportunity to remember these men once again; it may be particularly appropriate at the time of Ramadan

Remembering ALL

Michael D.R.