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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

21916 Spr Percy Fensome


kev1874

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Hi all,

 

 After purchasing a 14/15 star trio, LSGC and army rifle medal to 21916 sapper Fensome I'm trying to do a bit of digging into him and I have a couple of question if anybody can help please.

 

1: Is it possible to find out when the LSGC was awarded? I know war service counted double so there's a 10 year gap or more for him serving excluding the war years. I've seen on the long long trail the records for up to 1919 are on the NA but cant seem to see them, only up to 1912 and after 1919 aren't released yet but I'm wondering if its possible to roughly date it another way..

2: I think I've found a old thread on here about RE service numbers that's roughly dated him signing up between February 1911 and March 1912 can anybody confirm this for me please or tie it down further, maybe even where he signed up? I cant seem to find any service or pension records.

3: There is a note in pencil in the remarks column on his BWM and Vic roll that I cant make out, can anybody else read it please?

4: Can anybody tell me more info on the Army rifle association medal, I've had a look around their website and a few other pages but cant see much in the way of history other than wiki.

5: Is it possible from his number to tell what unit he was? I can only see royal engineers on all docs found so far.

 

I've attached a few photos to help.

Thank in advance

 

20200430_184652.jpg

20200430_184704.jpg

Medals.jpg

Edited by kev1874
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Kev

He is named on a document that is a copy of a Field Return in the WD of 152 Field Company RE (37 Div). He is shown as 21961 but it should read 21916. The WD can be found on Ancestry via the Browse box under Royal Engineers - 37 Div - Piece 2522. It is on page 148/866. There is also a Nominal Roll dated 30/09/1915 but he does not appear on that. There is, however, 61756 Q M S Fensome J (who has Service and Pension records according to FMP). 

21916 P Fensome is also shown in a Hospital admissions book in 1918 and his Unit is shown as 152 FC.

The men of 152 must have been keen to get to grips with the enemy. When they arrived at Havre on 31/07/1915 the WD records that 59428 Spr Muirhead T jumped into the harbour.

Brian

Edited by brianmorris547
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Terry its 21916 as far as I know it said that in the listing, wont have the medals in my hands till tomorrow hopefully they got dispatched today, trying to get a head start on them

 

Brian that's great info thanks so much you've gave me no end to go on, maybe the QMS is a relation it's one possible avenue to explore, out of curiosity how did you find out it was the 152 FC? 

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Kev

Apart from the Hospital Admission, which can be found by putting the service number into FMP, I have been through the 1916 RE WDs and other records such as 1916 Times OCLs, MH 106, local papers and the Casualty Lists that appear on re used papers in service and pension records looking for my gf. I thought that I would record any names I found in order to assist other Forum members. Percy Fensome disembarked in France before 152 FC arrived there on 31/07/1915. It is possible that he was sick or wounded and discharged from hospital to 4 General Base Depot and sent to 152 FC from there. He may get a further mention in the 1917/18 WDs of 152 FC I have not checked those.

Brian

 

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12 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

 

The men of 152 must have been keen to get to grips with the enemy. When they arrived at Havre on 31/07/1915 the WD records that 59428 Spr Muirhead T jumped into the harbour.

Brian

That made me smile, thanks Brian.

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Cheers Brian I'll be checking them today to see if there's any more info.

 

Thanks for the help

 

Kev 

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Brian,

 

QMS J fensome could well be his dad, I've had a quick look through his many pages of records, he was MID by Sir Douglas Haig no less LG 7/11/17, and amongst his children listed he has a son percy james born 1896 who is confirmed as being in the army on one of the pages, looks like Jim completed his 21 year service in June 1914 and signed back up, and is QMS on the formation of the 152FC. I'm going to start looking into more see if I can confirm it

Edited by kev1874
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15 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Kev

 

What is the number on the LS & GC?
 

TR
 

 

 

Terry,

 

 They have just arrived the listing was wrong the LS&GC is named to 1852761 Cpl P Fensome

 

Kev

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Hi All,

 

Does anybody know a way to view this record online? Or if not a way to tie down the discharge date a little?

 

Thanks for any assistance

 

Kev

Annotation 2020-05-02 120352.png

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1 minute ago, kev1874 said:

 

Hi All,

 

Does anybody know a way to view this record online? Or if not a way to tie down the discharge date a little?

 

Thanks for any assistance

 

Kev

Annotation 2020-05-02 120352.png

 

Looks like Ancestry's Fold3 rip off....you either pay and join...or sometimes they offer a free trial for a week.

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The link takes you to a gov. website you have to apply for it and wait so its not fold3 unfortunately I've got the free trail on there already. I'll order it as a last resort I was just wondering if there was a quicker way.

 

Cheers

 

Kev

Edited by kev1874
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Kev

 

His seven figure number on the LS & GC was issued as the result of Army Oder 338 1920. The renumbering of the army resulted in the allocation of blocks of seven figure numbers which is why I asked the question. That should give to a time scale for the approximate issue of his LS & GC. The RE block pertaining to your man ran from 1842001-2303000.

 

TR

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Thanks Terry, I think he was in the army until at least 1926 doing the maths from his year of birth if he signed up at 16, 2 years before the war and served throughout. I'm pretty confident he was QMS Jim Fensome's son Percy James and he spent the first few years of his life in England then went to India with the rest of his family, returning to England periodically for the next 10 years or so, the 1911 census has the family in barracks in England but not Percy for some reason? I cant find Percy on the 1901 census either. The Family come back to England permanently in early 1914 after Jim had completed 21 years service. By May 1916 Both Jim and Percy are serving in the 152 FC R.E, although, Percy lands in France 7 weeks before the 152 FC but I don't know where he was in this period or when he joined them, it looks like both of them serve the rest of the war with the unit and at the end of the war Jim is demobbed and Percy stays in, I have who I believe to be him sailing to Gibraltar from London and his occupation is a soldier in September 1923. Then I don't know much until Percy marries Lilly Annie Holt in 1939, he pops up on a few electoral rolls during the late 40's then I cant seem to find anything until his death in Sedgemoor, Somerset 1st quarter 1975

Edited by kev1874
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Cheers Terry I'll look into that I thought that all I could find was the burnt records didnt realise post 20s service were available.

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On 01/05/2020 at 10:51, kev1874 said:

Brian,

 

QMS J fensome could well be his dad, I've had a quick look through his many pages of records, he was MID by Sir Douglas Haig no less LG 7/11/17, and amongst his children listed he has a son percy james born 1896 who is confirmed as being in the army on one of the pages, looks like Jim completed his 21 year service in June 1914 and signed back up, and is QMS on the formation of the 152FC. I'm going to start looking into more see if I can confirm it

Kev

Possible. 

Just to throw another spanner into the works the 1915 WD of 30 Div CRE has two photographs of the Officers and NCOs of HQ. One is shown as 52941 QMS Fensom (no E) ex RE but the picture was taken on 31/08/1915 at Boultham Park, Lincoln. Jim went to France on 31/07/1917.

Brian

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Hi Brian, 

 

 I've got Jim landing in france 30/7/15 he is QMS 61456 Jim Fensome 152 FC RE (WO2 on vic and war) I think were on about 2 different men, my man was born in dunstable late 1872 early 1873 so I dont think were on about the same person

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Hi All,

 

 After a bit of digging I've found the following on FWR and I'm wondering if the original roll is out there anywhere or is this transcribe the best I'm going to get?

 

 If it does exist and somebody can point me in the right direction id be grateful.

 

Thanks

 

Kev

.

 

 

Wound1917.png

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Question 3

'noted...'

 

George

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Think it's just someone's initials-but uncertain

 

George

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  • 10 months later...

Hi Kev,

 

Just doing some cleaning up in my Fensome Family Tree and came across this thread. Jim was my 2 x great uncle. His family moved to Northamptonshire about 1891, however he remained in Dunstable. He obviously moved to Northamptonshire himself between 1891-95 as he met and married his wife in Dallington in 1895.

 

I'm very interested to see the photos of the medals. As you have discovered there were a number of different Percys in Bedfordshire around this time. I'll spend a bit of time going through them over the next couple of days to see if I can sort them all out.

 

Peter

 

 

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