8811 Herbert Cawtheray 1 Bn Northumberland fusiliers

[Guest Ray Greenwood]

My great uncle Herbert Cawtheray, service number 8811 fought and died on the retreat from Mons on the 9th Sept.  I can find no information regarding his regiments action leading up to his death.  Any help and information would be greatly received.

Thank you. 

[tullybrone]

Hi,

 

The retreat from Mons was over by 9th September. He was more likely a casualty of the Battle of the Marne.

 

CWGC says he has no grave and is recorded on the  La Ferté-sous-Jouarre Memorial to the Missing.

 

The La Ferté-sous-Jouarre Memorial commemorates 3,740 officers and men of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) who fell at the battles of Mons, Le Cateau, the Marne and the Aisne between the end of August and early October 1914 and have no known graves. 
 

U.K. National Archives are currently allowing free digital downloads of WW1 war diaries. You ought to download 1st NF diary to see what they were doing on 9th September 1914.

 

Good Luck

 

Steve

[joe19612]

Hi Ray

 

This book is available:

The Devil's Carnival - the first hundred days of Armageddon 1st bh Northumberland Fusilers August to December 14.

 

Had a quick look for you that day is covered in the book and your great uncle is  mentioned. 

 

Joe

 

[EDWARD1]

WD 1st NF From La FRANCHERE

9th Left billets at 4.30pm and crossed the Marne as advanced guard. The Brigade was delayed all day by wood fighting and in the evening took up a position and unpacked and slept the night in [ ?] [?] VENTRELETTE FARM . We had several casualties.

10th Marched at 5.30.........

[Justine]

Hi Herbert Cawtheray was my great grandfather, maybe I could help you and find out our family connection 

justine

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. @Ray Greenwood hasn’t visited the forum since he made that one post. I have tagged him to alert him to your post. Hopefully, he will respond. 
Michelle 

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Justine said:

Hi Herbert Cawtheray was my great grandfather, maybe I could help you and find out our family connection 

Welcome to GWF.

Don't know if you already have this but a pension index card for an alternative pension claim [ie. a higher pension based on earlier civil earnings] by/for his widow, Mabel, shows an address of 21 Copse Rd, Mead Vale, Redhill (Reigate) Surrey - card prepared after 4/20 [when the card batch appears to have been printed] - unfortunately there are no details of the outcome which was handled by MoP Region 11 [SE England]

M

Edited 30 December , 2021 by Matlock1418

[Justine]

Thank you for you comments much appreciated, Herbert did serve as as a prison warder in Portland before dying in France in First World War, I have no idea if he would have served as a prison warder as part of his military role? I can’t find sign up dates for either!? 

[clk]

Hi Justine,

4 hours ago, Justine said:

I can’t find sign up dates for either!?

His Soldiers Effects record indicates that Herbert originally enlisted at Leeds on 10.11.1902.

Image Sourced from Ancestry

It would appear that his WW1 service was as a consequence of him being called up from the Reserve.

Image sourced from Findmypast

Regards
Chris

 

 

 

[ss002d6252]

That's a nice example of one of the preserved WF25 forms.

The handwritten comment regarding form 50C is the first time I've seen it confirmed what that form was (I've seen the form number before, but not what it was used for).

Craig

[Justine]

Thank you for finding this information very kind of you. I still need to find out about him being a prison warder and if this connected to military service, any ideas? Also any ideas of where to maybe find a photo of Herbert?

[tullybrone]

7 hours ago, Justine said:

Thank you for you comments much appreciated, Herbert did serve as as a prison warder in Portland before dying in France in First World War, I have no idea if he would have served as a prison warder as part of his military role? I can’t find sign up dates for either!? 

Hi,

He likely joined The Prison Service on his discharge to Class B Army Reserve in November 1909 (at the latest) at the end of his 7 year full time service commitment. Forum member @Graham Stewart has a special knowledge of NF and may be able to assist.
 

Many men used their time in the Army as a stepping stone to obtain secure and reliable civilian employment in careers with The Post Office, Police Service, Prison Service and as Attendants in Mental Hospitals - subject to having obtained at least a Class 2 Army Education Certificate and an Exemplary Character on discharge.

I see the WF25 form has a Portland address written on it. 

Steve

Edited 31 December , 2021 by tullybrone

[Justine]

Your all so helpful 

thank you so much and happy new year 

[tullybrone]

38 minutes ago, Justine said:

Your all so helpful 

thank you so much and happy new year 

I’m sure I speak for all other contributors by saying that you are very welcome Justine.

In respect of a photo I’d write to the Governor at the address in this link -

https://www.doingtime.co.uk/hmp-yoi-portland/

The Governor may redirect your enquiry to an archivist at the prison (if there is on) or perhaps a representative of the local Prison Officer Association.

There may be even be a War Memorial Plaque on the site in remembrance of all Portland Prison Officers (known as Warders at that time) who served and died during The Great War as Im sure a great many would’ve been recalled reservists in 1914.

Good Luck and best wishes for 2022.

Steve

PS

My great uncle was killed, aged 18 yrs, whilst serving with 1st NF in July 1916 after being wounded whilst serving with 2nd NF in Feb 1915, aged 17.

 

 

 

[Justine]

Hi so I have found out Herbert Cawtheray served in the South Africa campaign, probably the 2nd boar war? Anyone have any details or knowledge on this?

justine

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, Justine said:

I have found out Herbert Cawtheray served in the South Africa campaign, probably the 2nd boar war? Anyone have any details or knowledge on this?

As pre-GW possibly better to try https://www.angloboerwar.com ??

Good luck.

M

[Justine]

Thank you very much

[Raymond Greenwood]

On 31/12/2021 at 15:26, Justine said:

Thank you for finding this information very kind of you. I still need to find out about him being a prison warder and if this connected to military service, any ideas? Also any ideas of where to maybe find a photo of Herbert?

Hello Justine.

Herbert was my Great Uncle on my mother's side. I have a photo of him and his brother Albert both in uniform. If you would like I can send you a copy.

[tullybrone]

51 minutes ago, Raymond Greenwood said:

Hello Justine.

Herbert was my Great Uncle on my mother's side. I have a photo of him and his brother Albert both in uniform. If you would like I can send you a copy.

Hi,

 

Welcome back to the forum.

 

Justine hasn’t posted on the forum since she was “signposted” to AngloBoer War forum over 2 years ago.

 

I’ve sent her a message to alert her to your message. I can’t guarantee she will respond.

 

Steve

Edited 2 April by tullybrone

[Justine]

On 02/04/2024 at 16:19, tullybrone said:

Hi,

 

Welcome back to the forum.

 

Justine hasn’t posted on the forum since she was “signposted” to AngloBoer War forum over 2 years ago.

 

I’ve sent her a message to alert her to your message. I can’t guarantee she will respond.

 

Steve

 

On 02/04/2024 at 16:19, tullybrone said:

Hi,

 

Welcome back to the forum.

 

Justine hasn’t posted on the forum since she was “signposted” to AngloBoer War forum over 2 years ago.

 

I’ve sent her a message to alert her to your message. I can’t guarantee she will respond.

 

Steve

I have received message and am very excited to see a photo of Herbert and Albert