Army Cyclist Corps - what unit?

[MaxD]

My man's medal award roll has (typed so readable) 2/1 Div A Cyclist Corps.  His medal card has A Cyclist Corps.   No service record survives.

 

I'd be grateful if someone could untangle this - what unit was he in?

 

Max

[johnmelling1979]

Hello Max

 

Bit of a long shot....

Could it have meant 2/1 Home Counties Divisional Cyclist Company?

Which in that case would have been under 67th (2nd Home Counties) Division as of 1915

 

John

[owen4256]

Max

 

A name and number would really help. The second line territorial companies were all renumberd in November 1916 so a five digit number will give the company.

 

Best 

 

Clive

 

[Vlaamse Verhalen]

I'm getting far more results for 21 Division A Cyclist Corps..........

 

A Cyclist Corps has to just be an abbreviation for Army. It's also presenting as A. Cyclist Cps. in some instances.

Edited 28 April , 2020 by Vlaamse Verhalen

[MaxD]

1 hour ago, owen4256 said:

A name and number would really help.

 

Of course!  Thomas Smith 16035, became 33886 Loyal North Lancs

 

(It is clearly 2/1 Div not 21 Div on the award roll)

 

Max

[George Rayner]

Is this your Smith in Forces War Records?

First Name: Thomas Eli

Surname: Smith

Birth Town: Bristol, Gloucestershire.

Resided Town: Bristol, Gloucestershire.

Nationality: British

Date of Death: 27/04/1917

Fate: Died

Rank: Serjeant

Service Number: 33886

Duty Location: France And Flanders

Service: British Army

Regiment: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment

Battalion: 9th Battalion (Why is this important?)

Commemorated: Britain

 

George

 

[Chris_Baker]

His number is indicative of 2/1st South Midland Divisional Cyclist Company (Territorial Force) but it was probably not this original number. The men of the unit were renumbered into the regular army ACC sequence on 1 November 1916.

 

 

Edited 29 April , 2020 by Chris_Baker

[ss002d6252]

According to SDGW

 

Quote

Formerly 2697, Gloucester Regiment

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=nWt839&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=1543&cp=0&_F8007A65=33886&new=1&rank=1&uidh=784&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=335026&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=018fbc66ef8992bd76a99f24fb5c1026

Craig

[Vlaamse Verhalen]

10 hours ago, MaxD said:

 

Of course!  Thomas Smith 16035, became 33886 Loyal North Lancs

 

(It is clearly 2/1 Div not 21 Div on the award roll)

 

Max

 

Had a look at a few pages in either direction, on the medal roll, and you're absolutely right. It's strange how that presentation didn't show up in the search I did.

 

The presentation isn't consistent throughout, but I'm sure Chris Baker is correct, in what he added: the entry for Pte. 33905 John Uriah Walton, shows as "2/1 Glos S.M. Div. Cyclist Corps".

 

Best wishes

 

 

Steve

Edited 29 April , 2020 by Vlaamse Verhalen

[MaxD]

Thank you all  - it was the 2/1 that was puzzling me, I had all the rest.  In fact when he died he was detached from his battalion and attached to the ASC with the Advanced Horse Transport Depot which may have been the result of an earlier wounding (medical record seen)

.

George - yes, that is an extract from Soldiers Died in the Great War and was the start point for this trek!

 

The Gloucestershire Regiment reference would hang together with the South Midland neck of the woods and may have been be his first regiment (3rd Bn possibly) perhaps in UK (thus not in the medal record) or may be an error (see below).

 

2 hours ago, Chris_Baker said:

but it was probably not this original number. The men of the unit were renumbered into the regular army ACC sequence on 1 November 1916.

 

Chris - Thank you but sorry I can't quite follow your info on the number.  Is 16035 pre Nov 1916 or post Nov 1916?  I should have added to the mix that there is a medical record of Aug 1916 for 2697 Sgt T E Smith of "9th Corps Cyclist Battalion", I apologise for the omission which would have given a fuller picture although at that stage it was just the 2/1 Div thing puzzling me.  SDGW is the only place in surviving records hat 2697 is linked with the Gloucestershire Regiment.

 

Max

 

Edited 29 April , 2020 by MaxD

[ss002d6252]

Quote

SDGW is the only place in surviving records hat 2697 is linked with the Gloucestershire Regiment.

It is very common that SDGW is the only mention as they typically show the earlier enlistment details. I have found, from checking them against the war gratuity, that they are rarely incorrect (and where they are it's usually just a typo rather than incorrectly attributing service).

 

Craig

[Chris_Baker]

I think it probably went something like this: he enlisted into the Gloucesters (very much doubt it was 3rd Bn, almost certainly TF); was at some point transferred to 2/1st SM Divisional Cyclist Company and renumbered into the company's sequence; renumbered again on 1 November 1916; and subsequently transferred to the LNLR.

 

I have just seen records that suggest the transfer into LNLR took place on 11 December 1916 and that it was a draft that went to France two days later. It was posted to 10th Bn on 20 December 1916.

Edited 29 April , 2020 by Chris_Baker

[ss002d6252]

His war gratuity assists here - a sum of £15 net (£18 gross) was paid. This tells us,

https://www.wargratuity.uk/war-gratuity-calculator/

 

Craig

 

[MaxD]

Thank you both for the clarification.  Meanwhile in parallel I have been following up the Effects register which says he (Thomas Eli Smith) was also known as Thomas Ernest Smith.  That name has a 1903 - 1907 milita service record in the Somerset LI.  According to the family, the few personal details available for Thomas Ernest and Thomas Eli suggest it is the same man.

 

Best of all though, the 1903 papers have a 1915 stamp for "Territorial Force South Midland Division".  This suggests to me that these were stamped after, as you suggest Chris, he had joined the TF in that division in Aug 1914 as Craig's calculation indicates.   Luckily, while his later papers are lost, the stamp links the two periods of service.  He left the militia unfit in 1907 with a hernia, the fact that he then had another in 1916 may simply be coincidence or show a vulnerability to that sort of thing!

 

I am now much clearer on a possible trajectory for him even though his later papers are lost.  I am most grateful for your time as I am sure will be the relative for whom I am thrashing around in the now not so dark.  Thank you all again.

 

Max

 

PS The service number blog with which you are familiar has numbers of 3rd (SR) Battalion and 4,5 and 6 TF Battalions - I'll find his 2697 in August 1914 there I am sure - probably 4th as that was Bristol where he lived.

 

 

Edited 29 April , 2020 by MaxD
numbers blog

[owen4256]

The service number is actually part of the block assigned to the 3/1st South Midland Divisional Cyclist Company on 1st November 1916. On the basis of the information above, Smith went to France with the 61st  ( 2/1st South Midland) Cyclists which became C Company IX Corps Cyclist Batllaion. The Company embarked on the paddle steamer SS La Marguerite on 24th May 1916 and landed at Havre the following morning. They were incorporated into the Reserve Cyclist Battalion on 17th June 1916, this later became IX Corps Cyclist Battalion. in August 1916 he was invalided to the Uk and posted to the 3/1st when fit for duty. Renumbered  in November whilst still with the 3/st, In December 1916 he was posted to the 10th LNL as part of the draft of 86 men from the 3/1st when it was disbanded. At some point he transferred from the 10th to the 9th LNL .

 

Many of the early recruits to the 2/1st South Midland Cyclists were from the 2/4th and 2/5th Gloucesters and these men retained their Gloucester numbers until being renumbered in the Cyclist Corps in 1916. 

 

Regards

 

Clive

[MaxD]

Clive

 

That is additional magic which expands on what I have put together, I am very grateful and will pass it on directly to his great niece.  (I had wondered why he had retained his Glos number when transferred).

 

Best and thanks again

 

Max