Field Service Manual 1914

[Piper42nd]

The FSM 1914 makes the following statement in several places:

 

N. C. O.'s armed and equipped as staff-serjeants......etc, etc

 

Does anyone know how staff-serjeants were armed and equipped?

[FROGSMILE]

Before the war they were equipped with a “sword, staff sergeant, and carriage” and a War Office issued Wembley Revolver in a leather holster.  The sword doesn’t seem to have been used, although it was initially by officers.
 

NB.  The sword staff sergeant was an infantry pattern sword of utilitarian quality based on that purchased by officers, but in a leather scabbard with metal mounts.  The up-to-date issue revolver had a 6inch barrel, but there were also units equipped initially with the obsolescent 4inch barrel version.

 

 

Edited 23 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[593jones]

Out of interest, would a WOll have been issued with a revolver?  My grandfather was promoted to WOll in August 1918, 6th York and Lancaster.  Now he did have a revolver which he brought back home, my father saw it (for the first time) in 1940 when grandad handed it in to the authorities.  I have always wondered if he was issued it, in which case I would have thought he would have to hand it in on demobilisation, or whether he acquired it somewhere else.

[Piper42nd]

19 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Before the war they were equipped with a “sword, staff sergeant, and carriage” and a War Office issued Wembley Revolver in a leather holster.  The sword doesn’t seem to have been used, although it was initially by officers.
 

NB.  The sword staff sergeant was an infantry pattern sword of utilitarian quality based on that purchased by officers, but in a leather scabbard with metal mounts.  The up-to-date issue revolver had a 6inch barrel, but there were also units equipped initially with the obsolescent 4inch barrel version.

 

 

Do you mean carriage as in horse drawn carriage?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Piper42nd said:

Do you mean carriage as in horse drawn carriage?

ha ha no.  “Carriage” was the Army nomenclature for the two slings, one shorter than the other, and each with a spring clip, that fasten to the two rings on the sword scabbard. 
 

NB.  The images show modern versions of the same belt.  It’s the brown leather version that was issued along with the P03 equipment.  You can see how wearing swords with the later, P08 webbing, did not work, whereas the officers wore their’s with the Sam Browne.

Because the majority (but not all) of the staff sergeants were made WOII during the course of the war, it is just that rank that wear the sword belts today, generally with the short and long carriage clipped together.

 

Edited 23 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Am I embarrassed.  Would they have used P03, or P08 or P14 equipment or perhaps all three depending on the unit?

[FROGSMILE]

28 minutes ago, Piper42nd said:

Would they have used P03, or P08 or P14 equipment or perhaps all three depending on the unit?

Yes, it varied, although in general regular battalions and those of the TF that deployed very early on had the lion’s share of P08.

Edited 23 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Frogsmile would you happen to have the reference for your first response?  I believe you but there are some skeptics I associate with. 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Piper42nd said:

Frogsmile would you happen to have the reference for your first response?  I believe you but there are some skeptics I associate with. 

Not to hand I’m afraid.  I believe the precise details are listed in Equipment Regulations and sometimes in Establishment Tables too, usually as an annexe.  The regulations (and tables) changed from time-to-time as the circumstances evolved over the course of the war.  The details for each Arm (of Service) were also different.  ‘Staff sergeants’ was a generic collective term that referred to SNCOs (and WOs in terms of “equipped as”) in specialised roles within cavalry RHQs, artillery brigade HQs, infantry battalion HQs and ASC equivalents (also AOC depots).  This included such individuals as each unit’s principal sergeant major, its QMS, and others such as riding master, etc.  Some staff sergeants did have long-arms, e.g. the musketry instructor, and you really need to examine equipment regulations to compare each individual appointment.

 I enclose an image of an infantry battalion’s (KRRC) staff sergeants (with a few missing) circa 1907.  The swords belts and carriage were produced in brown leather (similar in shade to Sam Browne’s) for use with SD in 1903.  The man with the white belt is the armourer sergeant, in this case a QMS.

 

Edited 8 October , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

I believe I have found the source.  It was, as you suggested, "Regulations for the Equipment of the Regular Army".  One attachment is for the Ordnance Store Corps and one for the Infantry.  In both examples Staff Serjeants were indeed equipped with Webleys and swords.  Thanks again for your help Frogsmile.

 

[FROGSMILE]

Yes, that’s it.  Thank you for the update.  They’re also listed here (page 16): https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044080700669&view=1up&seq=38  Basically x6 Webley pistols per infantry battalion (i.e. for those equipped as staff sergeants).

In 1915 the staff quartermaster sergeant mentioned in the Army Ordnance Corps section was elevated to the new 2nd Class warrant officer level, which remains the case today.

NB. At the same time staff sergeant majors (ASC) became warrant officer 1st Class.  These are good examples of the British and Commonwealth system of rank and appointment.

Edited 16 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE