condronjames Posted 16 April , 2020 Share Posted 16 April , 2020 (edited) Good evening I’m after information about Captain Noel Irwin of the 2nd Essex. He would appear to have been the Captain of the Company that my Great Great Uncle, Herbert Guiver, served with. When Herbert was killed Captain Irwin wrote to his widow describing him as “one of my keenest non-commissioned officers”. I wonder if anyone could tell me which Company Captain Irwin commanded as I’ve never been able to work out which Company of the 2nd Essex Herbert was in. Any help would be greatly appreciated. James Edited 16 April , 2020 by condronjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 16 April , 2020 Share Posted 16 April , 2020 James, It is likely that Captain Irwin is mentioned in the 2nd Essex War Diary. It is available from T.N.A. for a small fee. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352169 It is also available on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/60779/?count=50&keyword=1505&keyword_x=1 Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 (edited) Hi Alf I have the full diaries of the 2nd Essex transcribed into a Word document. Captain Irwin is mentioned multiple times, but it is never mentioned which company he is in. I’ve seen a separate mention on this forum of a book he wrote called Infantry Officer; but can’t see a copy online. Maybe someone on the forum has it? James Edited 17 April , 2020 by condronjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 As a Lieutenant he is mentioned a couple of times - 'in charge' of 3 platoons in A company (May 2nd 1915) and again on May 13th in charge of A company. On page 113 his entry is "2/Lt NMS Irwin to England sick 13.10.14. Returned 24.12.14. Military Cross Temporary Captain 09.05.15", which explains why he was in charge of a company, normally the Captain's role. He's also a Temp Captain when M.I.D (London Gazette 1.1.16). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 12 minutes ago, Langdon said: As a Lieutenant he is mentioned a couple of times - 'in charge' of 3 platoons in A company (May 2nd 1915) and again on May 13th in charge of A company. On page 113 his entry is "2/Lt NMS Irwin to England sick 13.10.14. Returned 24.12.14. Military Cross Temporary Captain 09.05.15", which explains why he was in charge of a company, normally the Captain's role. He's also a Temp Captain when M.I.D (London Gazette 1.1.16). Mike You’re better than me Mike - I didn’t see the reference to A Company. My relative was killed on 16 Feb 1916. Do you think it would be too bold to assume he was in charge of A company on that date? Thank you so much for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 I don't see why not. I stopped looking in April 16 knowing your relative's KIA date... Fair conclusion but not definitive! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 1 minute ago, Langdon said: I don't see why not. I stopped looking in April 16 knowing your relative's KIA date... Fair conclusion but not definitive! M There’s a separate thread on this forum where his Grandaughter has posted as a guest indicating he wrote a book called Infantry Officer about his WW1 experiences. Seems to be impossible to get hold of, and I have no way of contacting his Grandaughter as she was only a guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 Not about Irwin, but a clip from the British Newspaper Archive you may find interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 Have you seen these library options? https://www.worldcat.org/title/infantry-officer-1914-1918-the-record-of-service-as-a-young-officer-in-the-first-world-war-of-lt-general-nms-irwin/oclc/32702640 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 15 minutes ago, sadbrewer said: Not about Irwin, but a clip from the British Newspaper Archive you may find interesting. Thank you very much! 14 minutes ago, Langdon said: Have you seen these library options? https://www.worldcat.org/title/infantry-officer-1914-1918-the-record-of-service-as-a-young-officer-in-the-first-world-war-of-lt-general-nms-irwin/oclc/32702640 M I had not. I will pay a visit to the British Library post lockdown! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 I thought I recognised the name from other research. Here's some background on Irwin though it doesn't answer your question. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Irwin C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 57 minutes ago, Colin W Taylor said: I thought I recognised the name from other research. Here's some background on Irwin though it doesn't answer your question. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Irwin C Thanks for this Colin. He sounds like quite a man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 (edited) GUIVER, Herbert, Sergeant, 6648 Born at Chadwell Heath, Sergeant Guiver lived at "Ceylon" Honiton Road, Southend-on-Sea. He had served in the Boer War, and was called upon as a Reservist in August 1914. He was killed by a shell on 18th February 1916 aged 33 after nine months at the front. He was serving in the Borough Police Force at the outbreak, and had also been stationed at Shoeburyness under the Rochford Hundred Police Force. When he enlisted he was a first class constable. He was described by his officer as "One of the keenest non-commissioned officers". His name was on the Roll of Honour displayed during the memorial service held at St. Erkenwalds church in 1917 and is commemorated on the St. Erkenwalds War Memorial. Se Southend Standard 21/2/1916 & 29/2/1916 for obit. 9/3/1916, photo. 5/4/1917 memorial service. Edited 18 July , 2020 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 43 minutes ago, stiletto_33853 said: GUIVER, Herbert, Sergeant, 6648 Born at Chadwell Heath, Sergeant Guiver loved at "Ceylon" Honiton Road, Southend-on-Sea. He had served in the Boer War, and was called upon as a Reservist in August 1914. He was killed by a shell on 18th February 1916 aged 33 after nine months at the front. He was serving in the Borough Police Force at the outbreak, and had also been stationed at Shoeburyness under the Rochford Hundred Police Force. When he enlisted he was a first class constable. He was described by his officer as "One of the keenest non-commissioned officers". His name was on the Roll of Honour displayed during the memorial service held at St. Erkenwalds church in 1917 and is commemorated on the St. Erkenwalds War Memorial. Se Southend Standard 21/2/1916 & 29/2/1916 for obit. 9/3/1916, photo. 5/4/1917 memorial service. Thanks for this - much appreciated. What is the photo referred to at the bottom for 9/3/1916. And are there any additional details of the memorial service please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 (edited) Some of the pictures in the Southend Standard are not very good quality, but he has a picture in the paper. The details of the memorial service are also in the paper. Once this lockdown is over I will pop into Southend Library where they keep the rolls of film of the Southend Standard and see what's there for you. St. Erkenwalds Church was an imposing structure in Southchurch Avenue, now demolished, however the memorial stone was rededicated in Sutton Road Cemetery. The write up in post 13 came from the Southend Standard. One other thought, Southends Police Station has a memorial to local Policemen during the war, will check if he is on that for you. Andy Edited 17 April , 2020 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 From the IWM site memorial register Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 1 hour ago, stiletto_33853 said: Some of the pictures in the Southend Standard are not very good quality, but he has a picture in the paper. The details of the memorial service are also in the paper. Once this lockdown is over I will pop into Southend Library where they keep the rolls of film of the Southend Standard and see what's there for you. St. Erkenwalds Church was an imposing structure in Southchurch Avenue, now demolished, however the memorial stone was rededicated in Sutton Road Cemetery. The write up in post 13 came from the Southend Standard. One other thought, Southends Police Station has a memorial to local Policemen during the war, will check if he is on that for you. Andy Thank you ever so much! I visit the Sutton Road memorial often. I was lucky enough to inherit his medals last year too. I’d love to see the photo in the paper. I only have 2 photos of him and would love another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Hollington Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 Hi, I have a copy [actually a photocopy] of Noel Irwin's book, which covers his military service and includes his early career with the 2 Essex. I will try and copy the pages for you. His son, also wrote a book about his experiences as a platoon commander in 2 Essex, but his service was in WW2 [I also have a copy of this]. For some reason I think Irwin junior wrote his book first and then Noel Irwin decided to get in on the act. A retired police officer from Essex recently [last five years] wrote an article about fallen police officers in WW1, I have a copy somewhere. I almost wrote my dissertation on 2 Essex and have given a talk to the Southend and Essex Western Front Associations about the battalion, so have various bits of information at home. Drop me a private message with your email address and I'll try and send anything that I find over to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 1 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 May , 2020 On 30/04/2020 at 09:29, Ali Hollington said: Hi, I have a copy [actually a photocopy] of Noel Irwin's book, which covers his military service and includes his early career with the 2 Essex. I will try and copy the pages for you. His son, also wrote a book about his experiences as a platoon commander in 2 Essex, but his service was in WW2 [I also have a copy of this]. For some reason I think Irwin junior wrote his book first and then Noel Irwin decided to get in on the act. A retired police officer from Essex recently [last five years] wrote an article about fallen police officers in WW1, I have a copy somewhere. I almost wrote my dissertation on 2 Essex and have given a talk to the Southend and Essex Western Front Associations about the battalion, so have various bits of information at home. Drop me a private message with your email address and I'll try and send anything that I find over to you. I cannot tell you how grateful I would be if you could find a way of sharing Irwin senior’s book. Thank you so much. I’ll send you a PM now James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 3 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2020 I can now no longer find the document which mentions Captain Irwin as the officer who described my Great Uncle as “one of my finest non-commissioned officers”. I know for a fact I’ve seen it, and have it somewhere. It’s driving me mad. Does anyone happen to know where it’s mentioned? Not looking to break any forum rules, so if it’s on a pay site I’ll happily pay to access James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travers61 Posted 3 May , 2020 Share Posted 3 May , 2020 Some years ago Essex Police Museum were very helpful to me & were interested in their officers WW1 service. Maybe they have a photo from his Police Service file. https://www.essex.police.uk/police-forces/essex-police/areas/essex-police/au/about-us/museum/research/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth morris Posted 3 May , 2020 Share Posted 3 May , 2020 You may be interested in this. Courtesy of Ebay at £1.49. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-1920-MILITARY-PRINT-LT-NMS-IRWIN-WINNING-MILITARY-CROSS-YPRES-1915/293383274591?hash=item444f01805f:g:1FgAAOSwR8hd5Tas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 3 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2020 3 minutes ago, gareth morris said: You may be interested in this. Courtesy of Ebay at £1.49. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-1920-MILITARY-PRINT-LT-NMS-IRWIN-WINNING-MILITARY-CROSS-YPRES-1915/293383274591?hash=item444f01805f:g:1FgAAOSwR8hd5Tas Wow - brilliant. Thank you. Just bought it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth morris Posted 3 May , 2020 Share Posted 3 May , 2020 No Worries, glad to help. Stay safe. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condronjames Posted 3 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 May , 2020 25 minutes ago, travers61 said: Some years ago Essex Police Museum were very helpful to me & were interested in their officers WW1 service. Maybe they have a photo from his Police Service file. https://www.essex.police.uk/police-forces/essex-police/areas/essex-police/au/about-us/museum/research/ I have been in touch with them too and they were very helpful indeed. They managed to track down a second photo of Herbert which was fantastic. Thank you for the tip though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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