Volley v. Salvo

[tootrock]

While looking at a link to a book about Sound Ranging in another post I noticed the following remark: "Three salvoes are first fired in the way of verification at the usual rate, followed at once by volleys for effect."

What is the difference between a volley and a salvo? Clearly in this application there is a distinction between the two, but dictionary definitions suggest that they are the same thing.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Martin

[DavidOwen]

The book in the link is an American one. I haven't looked closely to see if they make a distinction.

Here is the link https://archive.org/details/artilleryfiring00statgoog/page/n4/mode/2up/search/Salvo

 

Edit: page 181 defines a volley as a series of one or more rounds per piece fired as rapidly as the material permits. A salvo is a series of one shot per piece fired at regular intervals from one flank to the other of a unit of artillery.

 

Hope that helps.

[Steven Broomfield]

Might be wrong, but I can't say I've ever heard of 'salvo' in the context of small arms. Volley Fire would imply a unit firing at the same time, obviously, but I can't say I connect salvo with rifle or mg fire. Similarly I can't say that I've heard of volley fire from larger weapons (artillery, etc).

 

For me, volley = small arms, salvo = artillery (particularly naval)

[4thGordons]

4 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

For me, volley = small arms, salvo = artillery (particularly naval)

 

This was my immediate response too.

However thinking, (dangerous I know)  about it ; I might add to me a volley would be all weapons discharging simultaneously whereas a salvo would be made of weapons firing consecutively (in both instances at the same target) which would be in line with DavidOwen's post.

Chris

[Gunner Bailey]

17 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

 

This was my immediate response too.

However thinking, (dangerous I know)  about it ; I might add to me a volley would be all weapons discharging simultaneously whereas a salvo would be made of weapons firing consecutively (in both instances at the same target) which would be in line with DavidOwen's post.

Chris

 

That 'salvo' in the context of small arms would hardly be effective. Volley fire from 100 Lee Enfields could in theory be very effective. 

 

I just think the original writer of the book on sound ranging was probably a scientist rather than military. Ar*e from elbow etc.....

[DavidOwen]

31 minutes ago, Gunner Bailey said:

 

 

 

I just think the original writer of the book on sound ranging was probably a scientist rather than military. Ar*e from elbow etc.....

 

Unlikely as the book is an  Official US War Department publication.

 

[Gunner Bailey]

22 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

 

Unlikely as the book is an  Official US War Department publication.

 

 

But in reality we don't know, do we?

 

There may be a language issue between US and UK English, but I doubt that.  BUT the Americans tended to reuse a lot of French literature in WW1 so there maybe a French / English translation issue.

 

I'd say that even amongst people on this forum Volley fire = rifles Salvoes = artillery 

[DavidOwen]

According to this English / French ArtilleryTechnical Vocabulary both salvo and volley are relevant to artillery operations https://archive.org/details/frenchenglishart00gondrich/page/n5/mode/2up

 

Clearly Salvo as defined above would be of little use in small arms terms.

[trajan]

OED don't help - under volley "1.a. A simultaneous discharge of a number of firearms or artillery; a salvo."  Under salvo - 1. A salute consisting in the simultaneous discharge of artillery or other firearms." and  "2.a. A simultaneous discharge of artillery or other firearms, whether with hostile intent or otherwise".

 

Perhaps the key in that text is "volleys for effect"? The salvoes are at specific timed intervals, the volleys at irregular timings?

[14276265]

Salvos are precisely timed firings from the guns of a battery, allowing the accurate measurement of the time taken for the sound of explosion of the falling HE shell to travel back to the nearby sound ranging section (time of flight of shell to target being known). The exact position (grid coordinates) of the shell fall can then be calculated.

 

Once confirmed by the salvos that the target is being hit, before the enemy can up sticks and change position, the guns go into "fire for effect" mode, i.e. balls out rapid/volley fire.

[Ron Clifton]

On 16/04/2020 at 14:09, Steven Broomfield said:

For me, volley = small arms, salvo = artillery (particularly naval)

For me too - and that is after having read the intervening posts.

 

When a battleship fires all its main armament at once, it is normally referred to as a salvo.

 

All the OED definitions quoted by Trajan refer to "simultaneous discharge" which, as he says, doesn't help.

 

Ron

[MikB]

12 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

For me too - and that is after having read the intervening posts.

 

When a battleship fires all its main armament at once, it is normally referred to as a salvo.

 

All the OED definitions quoted by Trajan refer to "simultaneous discharge" which, as he says, doesn't help.

 

Ron

 

Well, I'd think that's a broadside, even if the target is isn't directly abeam. A warship's salvo might consist of that part of the main armament that can be brought to bear, or even only part of that. There were various systems of shooting individual guns elevated for different ranges to shoot 'ladders' or 'bracketing' salvos to refine whatever the rangefinders were reading. Ships with damage or guns running with faults might even produce single-gun salvos.

 

And all the shots in a salvo might not be simultaneous, especially when ladders were being fired. There are plenty of British accounts describing German salvos as ripples of fire along a ship in close succession - presumably to distribute effects of recoil. If shooting a ladder for ranging, you'd need to fire furthest shots first - also accounting for the longer flight time - in order to see their splashes before nearer ones obscured them.

Edited 19 April , 2020 by MikB

[trajan]

20 hours ago, 14276265 said:

Salvos are precisely timed firings from the guns of a battery, allowing the accurate measurement of the time taken for the sound of explosion of the falling HE shell to travel back to the nearby sound ranging section (time of flight of shell to target being known). The exact position (grid coordinates) of the shell fall can then be calculated.

 

Once confirmed by the salvos that the target is being hit, before the enemy can up sticks and change position, the guns go into "fire for effect" mode, i.e. balls out rapid/volley fire.

 

That makes sense to me. Thanks!

[14276265]

On 19/04/2020 at 16:21, trajan said:

 

That makes sense to me. Thanks!

 

It is worth adding that this whole sound ranging thing applies to big guns (typically 6-inch calibre and above) providing counter-battery fire and disrupting major movements well behind enemy lines.

Noting an above comment that scientists did not know arrse from elbow, it was fortuitous that the British had good scientists both in the military, and at our universities working with the military, to crack the complex problems of accurate range finding for land, sea, and aerial targets.

Edited 24 September , 2020 by 14276265

[Gunner Bailey]

That comment was meant to imply that a scientist might use different terminology than the military. However in this case its a difference between probable French instructions and a translation.