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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

William Carruthers


Geoff786

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Hi there , searching for my great grandfather. The attached photo was taken 15 years ago and isn’t the greatest. It’s the only photo that I know of with him in it. Only issue, we are not sure which one he is. We agree he is one of the soldiers. The last trace I have of him is in the 1911 Irish census with his family in Belfast. No one knows what happened to him after that point. He is not buried with my great gran and it seems he walked away from the family At some point. The only evidence I have is this bad photo of photo. I had  someone on another forum send me a news article from 1939 with his name mentioning that person was a old soldier from the Dragoons Guards. His name was William Carruthers. He was 29 in 1911, any one that could provide insight id greatly appreciate it. Do the solders records show his next of kin names? If so her name was Eliza Carruthers (Belfast)

geoff

16A37F28-B901-4D3D-9BD5-586570554C1A.jpeg

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Welcome to the forum and good luck with your research.

 

If you have access to Ancestry-which is free this weekend- there is a tree for him with the same photo you display.

Name William George Carruthers

Gender Male

Birth Date abt 1883

Enlistment Age 32

Document Year 1915

Residence Place 16 Stamford Street, Blackfriars

Regimental Number 98198

Regiment Name Royal Army Medical Corps

Number of Images 16

Form Title Short Service Attestation

Other Records William George Carruthers - Self - Royal Army Medical Corps 98198

Family Members 361182

Household Members

Name William George Carruthers

Age 32

Name John Carruthers

If that is him he seems to have died on 24th April 1917. BUT I think the tree is incorrect in at least one way!

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/110926045/person/352057568133/facts

 

George

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Agree about the tree.....the Carruthers who dies on the 24th April is this chap .

LieutenantCARRUTHERS, WILLIAM

Died 24/04/1917

Aged 22

154th Field Coy.
Royal Engineers

Son of Francis and Mary Carruthers, of 119, Rodenhurst Rd., Clapham Park, London.

Edited by sadbrewer
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Who clearly isn't RAMC and discharged in 1919!

 

George

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With medal ribbons on show its certainly a post 1917 photo. The soldier second left appears to have 2 ribbons which I take to be a14 or 14/15 star and the other could be a DCM,I think I can see a dark stripe down the centre as opposed to the narrow stripes of an MM ribbon.  Could this be a father with his sons, the soldiers either side of him bear a resemblance.

 

Simon

Edited by mancpal
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4 hours ago, Geoff786 said:

last trace I have of him is in the 1911 Irish census with his family in Belfast.

 

Starting with what the OP thinks they know. This reference is to this  family at Klondyke (sic) St , Belfast

1911census.jpg.8bfad8ce6c6880a8a7bf3bcb99d7aa64.jpg

 

They were still there in 1910 when the youngest child was born

 

john1910.jpg.a8e2f4621d32fd5d342f0eaae1bb2a1e.jpg

 

But the other child was born illegitimate in Glasgow. I suspect that the mother had been sent there by her family to have the child. Basically Presbyterians in Belfast did not (do not) have illegitimate children

 

james-1905.jpg.e615f640e37216c79596f12009c59e9a.jpg

 

Which in turn lead me to a lack of marriage to William Carruthers. I cannot find one in Ireland or Scotland. They probably did not marry, but said they were married to cover the illegitimate child . They claim in 1911 census that they were married a year before the birth of the child

 

Anyway it establishes names and addresses and dates

 

 

 

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The OP has been somewhat economical in what he has posted here, and appears to know more that he has disclosed. The forum referred to is the Belfast Forum and takes a bit of digging out his post thread

http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=31666.msg2201617#msg2201617

 

Anyway I then got an actual marriage in Glasgow, which gives, or at least pertains to give, his parents as John (a farmer) and Mary Carruthers

marriage.jpg.f1513e9e4459f3cdf834a2cd8d977536.jpg

 

william-birth.jpg.28f440e61272c39c51ce1ef6f7e82ebe.jpg

 

(edited as his birth seemed to have gone)

Edited by corisande
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This is the 1939 newspaper article that was given in that thread. I don´t know its source, and I have linked it from that thread. As they say in that thread there is circumstantial evidence to link him to the William Carruthers being sought here

 

spacer.png

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And now I have found his birth - right parents, right year, but in Fermanagh, not Belfast

 

parents-marriage.jpg.8f5f853412bb2aeaf23b9cd2fcf98ac8.jpg

 

william-birth.jpg.37706d87a0e3f77f41a0348e084e9d60.jpg

 

That´s my lot done for the morning, I have been avoiding my somewhat challenging online course on Artificial Intelligence

william-birth.jpg

Edited by corisande
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There is a W Carruthers (served as W Boles - the original surname of his mother above) No. 4390 in the 3rd Dragoon Guards in South Africa. Awarded QSA with clasps for Cape Colony, Orange Free State and Transvaal (Roll date 14-7-1901) plus later clasps for South Africa 1901 and South Africa 1902 (Roll date 8-3-1903).

 

 

Steve.

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Find my past has a record for his Boer War service:

 

Surname: Boles
Forename: William
Year of birth: 1882
Year of death: —
Year of enlistment: 1900
Location: Maguires Bridge, Fermanagh, Ireland

 

 

Steve.

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I think you have him there, with the mother´s maiden name and Fermanagh. Carruthers is a comparatively rare name in Ulster as well

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Utterly sublime detective work gentlemen.  Kudos to you all.

 

The man far left with the fine imperial moustache would be my bet as our subject, he has the medal ribbons and the short shoulder title that I would expect to see after 1907. He also has the belt from the 1903 bandolier equipment worn by men on mounted duty.

 

98B419D7-C092-4AE9-B8B9-A49C3C310895.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Still looking for an excuse not to get back to my course

 

You will find that the actual family name was CarrOthers, but is often given as CarrUthers

 

Police Gazette 0f 22 Feb 1900 gives as a deserter William Carrothers, #6724 in R Irish Fusiliers, born McGuiresbridge, Fermanagh. Enlisted 3 Nov 1899

 

He may have opted for an alias Boles because of this

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Hi Geoff,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

5 hours ago, George Rayner said:

If you have access to Ancestry-which is free this weekend- there is a tree for him with the same photo you display...

 

...BUT I think the tree is incorrect in at least one way!

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/110926045/person/352057568133/facts

 

 

If he was born in 1881 to parents John and Mary (per corisande), I don't think that the linked service file for the RAMC man in that tree is correct. On attestation (11.12.1915) he gave a declared age of 32 years, 11 months; no previous service; and parents seem to have been John and 'Eliz.'.

 

May I ask how you know that William is in the photo?

 

Regards

Chris

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The man in the 1939 newspaper article, is probably also this man in 1931, note he uses both versions of his surname

 

larceny.jpg.9a53636d251e926344fa0094c036135c.jpg

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If he is in the group the soldier with the lanyard seems most likely - he has a QSA and 1914 or 1914-15 Star ribbon by the look of it.

 

 

Steve.

Edited by Stebie9173
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Hi all, you guys are incredible. What you have been able to do in matter of hours is incredible . I live in Canada, I was born in Belfast and took a photo of this photo at my aunts house in 2005. She had it in a cookie tin. 

  1. those are all of my posts in the Belfast forum 
  2. yes the illegitimate child is correct , he was my grandfather -James.
  3. I have a copy of Eliza and Williams’s wedding certificate, in Glasgow , I see Mothers maiden name as “Bowles” vs Boles. 
  4. i know see the father and sons connection in the photo 
  5. Does it seem the chap on the far right has a dark complexion 

im going to read thru your posts but just want to truely say thank you. 

 

Geoff 

Edited by Geoff786
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Where does the tree on Ancestry with this photo fit in to your research please?

 

George

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I do have ancestry and he has a profile I was able to build a branch off his wife(Eliza) and his two sons John and James. Is it my ancestry posting you are seeing? What I can’t figure out is his family. I changed his mothers name to Boles vs Bowles as per above. 

E1D2BC9E-0B56-406B-85F2-B4D3BC7D7F9C.png

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This is what I'm seeing. The URL is in my first post.

William Carruthers

William Carruthers

1882–1917

BIRTH ABOUT 1882  Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland

DEATH 24 APR 1917

 
 
Skip to Sources
Show

Facts

Name and gender
  • Birth

    About 1882  Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland

    2 Sources
     

    1882

    (AGE)

  • Death of Father John Carruthers(1858–1897)

    Mar 17 1897  Uppertown Airdrie

     

    1897

    15

  • Birth of Son James Estler Carruthers(1905–1982)

    Oct 2 1905  Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

     

    1905

    23

  • Marriage

    1 Jan 1908  Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

     

    1908

    26

  • Military

    abt 1915

    1 Source
     

    1915

    33

  • Residence

    1915  16 Stamford Street, Blackfriars

    Other Records: Self

    1 Source
     

    1915

    33

  • Death

    24 Apr 1917

    1 Source
     

    1917

    35

 
Skip to Family

Sources

Ancestry Sources

  • View Source

    British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920

     
  • View Source

    Ireland, Casualties of World War I, 1914-1922

     
Search on Ancestry Skip to Facts

Family

Parents

Spouse & Children

Thanks to Ancestry as always

 

George

 

 

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Well, that’s my cousin who I have never met linking to my research on my tree. Those are my photos. I didn’t know he had created that. 

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Amazing what turns up isn't it?

 

George

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I stand in utter amazement of how he might have managed to create that tree.

 

 

erhaps it was to put people off the real tree

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Based on your experience and a really bad photo , are you guys are looking at the various uniforms and the specific identifiers . 

BEE6EC30-7480-4E07-8CBF-FE60D673E03D.jpeg

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