Geoff786 Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Hi there , searching for my great grandfather. The attached photo was taken 15 years ago and isn’t the greatest. It’s the only photo that I know of with him in it. Only issue, we are not sure which one he is. We agree he is one of the soldiers. The last trace I have of him is in the 1911 Irish census with his family in Belfast. No one knows what happened to him after that point. He is not buried with my great gran and it seems he walked away from the family At some point. The only evidence I have is this bad photo of photo. I had someone on another forum send me a news article from 1939 with his name mentioning that person was a old soldier from the Dragoons Guards. His name was William Carruthers. He was 29 in 1911, any one that could provide insight id greatly appreciate it. Do the solders records show his next of kin names? If so her name was Eliza Carruthers (Belfast) geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Welcome to the forum and good luck with your research. If you have access to Ancestry-which is free this weekend- there is a tree for him with the same photo you display. Name William George Carruthers Gender Male Birth Date abt 1883 Enlistment Age 32 Document Year 1915 Residence Place 16 Stamford Street, Blackfriars Regimental Number 98198 Regiment Name Royal Army Medical Corps Number of Images 16 Form Title Short Service Attestation Other Records William George Carruthers - Self - Royal Army Medical Corps 98198 Family Members 361182 Household Members Name William George Carruthers Age 32 Name John Carruthers If that is him he seems to have died on 24th April 1917. BUT I think the tree is incorrect in at least one way! https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/110926045/person/352057568133/facts George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 (edited) Agree about the tree.....the Carruthers who dies on the 24th April is this chap . LieutenantCARRUTHERS, WILLIAM Died 24/04/1917 Aged 22 154th Field Coy.Royal Engineers Son of Francis and Mary Carruthers, of 119, Rodenhurst Rd., Clapham Park, London. Edited 12 April , 2020 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Who clearly isn't RAMC and discharged in 1919! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 (edited) With medal ribbons on show its certainly a post 1917 photo. The soldier second left appears to have 2 ribbons which I take to be a14 or 14/15 star and the other could be a DCM,I think I can see a dark stripe down the centre as opposed to the narrow stripes of an MM ribbon. Could this be a father with his sons, the soldiers either side of him bear a resemblance. Simon Edited 12 April , 2020 by mancpal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 4 hours ago, Geoff786 said: last trace I have of him is in the 1911 Irish census with his family in Belfast. Starting with what the OP thinks they know. This reference is to this family at Klondyke (sic) St , Belfast They were still there in 1910 when the youngest child was born But the other child was born illegitimate in Glasgow. I suspect that the mother had been sent there by her family to have the child. Basically Presbyterians in Belfast did not (do not) have illegitimate children Which in turn lead me to a lack of marriage to William Carruthers. I cannot find one in Ireland or Scotland. They probably did not marry, but said they were married to cover the illegitimate child . They claim in 1911 census that they were married a year before the birth of the child Anyway it establishes names and addresses and dates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 (edited) The OP has been somewhat economical in what he has posted here, and appears to know more that he has disclosed. The forum referred to is the Belfast Forum and takes a bit of digging out his post thread http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=31666.msg2201617#msg2201617 Anyway I then got an actual marriage in Glasgow, which gives, or at least pertains to give, his parents as John (a farmer) and Mary Carruthers (edited as his birth seemed to have gone) Edited 12 April , 2020 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 This is the 1939 newspaper article that was given in that thread. I don´t know its source, and I have linked it from that thread. As they say in that thread there is circumstantial evidence to link him to the William Carruthers being sought here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 (edited) And now I have found his birth - right parents, right year, but in Fermanagh, not Belfast That´s my lot done for the morning, I have been avoiding my somewhat challenging online course on Artificial Intelligence Edited 12 April , 2020 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 There is a W Carruthers (served as W Boles - the original surname of his mother above) No. 4390 in the 3rd Dragoon Guards in South Africa. Awarded QSA with clasps for Cape Colony, Orange Free State and Transvaal (Roll date 14-7-1901) plus later clasps for South Africa 1901 and South Africa 1902 (Roll date 8-3-1903). Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Find my past has a record for his Boer War service: Surname: Boles Forename: William Year of birth: 1882 Year of death: — Year of enlistment: 1900 Location: Maguires Bridge, Fermanagh, Ireland Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 I think you have him there, with the mother´s maiden name and Fermanagh. Carruthers is a comparatively rare name in Ulster as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 (edited) Utterly sublime detective work gentlemen. Kudos to you all. The man far left with the fine imperial moustache would be my bet as our subject, he has the medal ribbons and the short shoulder title that I would expect to see after 1907. He also has the belt from the 1903 bandolier equipment worn by men on mounted duty. Edited 12 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Still looking for an excuse not to get back to my course You will find that the actual family name was CarrOthers, but is often given as CarrUthers Police Gazette 0f 22 Feb 1900 gives as a deserter William Carrothers, #6724 in R Irish Fusiliers, born McGuiresbridge, Fermanagh. Enlisted 3 Nov 1899 He may have opted for an alias Boles because of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Hi Geoff, Welcome to the forum. 5 hours ago, George Rayner said: If you have access to Ancestry-which is free this weekend- there is a tree for him with the same photo you display... ...BUT I think the tree is incorrect in at least one way! https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/110926045/person/352057568133/facts If he was born in 1881 to parents John and Mary (per corisande), I don't think that the linked service file for the RAMC man in that tree is correct. On attestation (11.12.1915) he gave a declared age of 32 years, 11 months; no previous service; and parents seem to have been John and 'Eliz.'. May I ask how you know that William is in the photo? Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 The man in the 1939 newspaper article, is probably also this man in 1931, note he uses both versions of his surname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 (edited) If he is in the group the soldier with the lanyard seems most likely - he has a QSA and 1914 or 1914-15 Star ribbon by the look of it. Steve. Edited 12 April , 2020 by Stebie9173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff786 Posted 12 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2020 (edited) Hi all, you guys are incredible. What you have been able to do in matter of hours is incredible . I live in Canada, I was born in Belfast and took a photo of this photo at my aunts house in 2005. She had it in a cookie tin. those are all of my posts in the Belfast forum yes the illegitimate child is correct , he was my grandfather -James. I have a copy of Eliza and Williams’s wedding certificate, in Glasgow , I see Mothers maiden name as “Bowles” vs Boles. i know see the father and sons connection in the photo Does it seem the chap on the far right has a dark complexion im going to read thru your posts but just want to truely say thank you. Geoff Edited 12 April , 2020 by Geoff786 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Where does the tree on Ancestry with this photo fit in to your research please? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff786 Posted 12 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2020 I do have ancestry and he has a profile I was able to build a branch off his wife(Eliza) and his two sons John and James. Is it my ancestry posting you are seeing? What I can’t figure out is his family. I changed his mothers name to Boles vs Bowles as per above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 This is what I'm seeing. The URL is in my first post. Paul Carruthers SearchTools William Carruthers 1882–1917 BIRTH ABOUT 1882 • Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland DEATH 24 APR 1917 LifeStory Facts Gallery Skip to Sources Show Facts Name and gender Birth About 1882 • Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland 2 Sources 1882 (AGE) Death of Father John Carruthers(1858–1897) Mar 17 1897 • Uppertown Airdrie 1897 15 Birth of Son James Estler Carruthers(1905–1982) Oct 2 1905 • Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland 1905 23 Marriage 1 Jan 1908 • Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland 1908 26 Military abt 1915 1 Source 1915 33 Residence 1915 • 16 Stamford Street, Blackfriars Other Records: Self 1 Source 1915 33 Death 24 Apr 1917 1 Source 1917 35 Skip to Family Sources Ancestry Sources British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 Ireland, Casualties of World War I, 1914-1922 Search on Ancestry Skip to Facts Family Parents John Carruthers 1858–1897 Mary Bowles Spouse & Children Eliza Jane Estler 1882–1964 Thanks to Ancestry as always George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff786 Posted 12 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Well, that’s my cousin who I have never met linking to my research on my tree. Those are my photos. I didn’t know he had created that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Amazing what turns up isn't it? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 12 April , 2020 Share Posted 12 April , 2020 I stand in utter amazement of how he might have managed to create that tree. erhaps it was to put people off the real tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff786 Posted 12 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2020 Based on your experience and a really bad photo , are you guys are looking at the various uniforms and the specific identifiers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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