Adding insult to injury?

[Michelle Young]

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/75229629/smith,-george/

 

Preparing for an Easter Trip which may or may not come off, been looking at casualties from Mons. Not only was this man missed, but when discovered, he was added to the wrong memorial 

[laughton]

Michelle:

 

Should he be on the The La Ferté-sous-Jouarre Memorial?

 

Is it a question of the exact date because they were still at Ciply, just south of Mons, so in Belgium (war diary page 8 of 676)?

 

The CWGC refers to the starting date as "end of August" but Gooch dates back to August 11, 1914, however I don't see they have landed in France yet (war diary page 10 of 364)?

 

Coatz, from the same 4th Middlesex is on the  La Ferté-sous-Jouarre Memorial and he is 23 August 1914 (the same day as Smith), one of the earliest, so that would blow that argument. But did the CWGC look into this case at that level of detail or just take his death as Belgium, so Menin Gate.

 

The one thing I could not figure out was whether he has anything to do with the George Smith (whose number might be 11067), also of the 4th Middlesex, who disappeared at Mons and appeared on the German List (see ICRC database). You may know more about where he came from and his next-of-kin. Is he a coincidental POW with the same name and unit?

 

The first time I tried to get Montanelli taken off Ypres and put on Vimy, they turned me down on the basis "he is on a memorial, that is all that is important". Last year there was no question about putting him on the correct memorial, now done - different people. In the end I found his burial site, so now have to change him again.

 

The CWGC put lots of Canadians on the Vimy Memorial for late 1918 when they crossed into Belgium, so they would be with the rest of their pals.

 

Love the puzzle - what is the solution?

 

Richard

[Sepoy]

Have you discovered Captain Jonathan Edward Knowles, 4th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment, who was killed in action, at Mons, on 23rd August, 1914.
He is now buried at the Cement House Cemetery, near Langemark, Ypres Salient.

Captain Knowles was originally buried at Maisieres Communal Cemetery, but was moved, with a number of other early casualties from Maisieres, to Cement House.

I believe that they were moved so far from their original location of death, due to Cement House Cemetery being the only cemetery open for burials at the time.

Sepoy

[keithmroberts]

Captain knowles was not the only man moved to Cement House. He was among the first British officer casualties of the war. There is at least one thread on the forum with details of the action. I researched him quite a few years ago, and regret that I cannot recall the sources that I used for these clips.

[Michelle Young]

In  my opinion, yes he should be on La Ferte. Looking at Captain Knwles, it appears his son Jonathan was killed in 1940, serving as a Chaplain.

Michelle

[AndrewThornton]

On 15/03/2020 at 19:21, keithmroberts said:

Captain knowles was not the only man moved to Cement House. He was among the first British officer casualties of the war. There is at least one thread on the forum with details of the action. I researched him quite a few years ago, and regret that I cannot recall the sources that I used for these clips.

German burial records for Maisieres Communal Cemetery, held by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, confirm that Captain Knowles died of wounds at Feldlazarett Nr. 3 on 25 August 1914. This explains why he was buried there and was not amongst the 4th Middlesex men who were later reburied at St Symphorien Military Cemetery by the Germans. When dates of death were later recorded for the British burials at Maisieres Communal Cemetery (there is also evidence that this happened at St Symphorien as well) the Graves Registration Unit, and later the IWGC/CWGC referred to British records as their sources for this information.