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B Todd

Harry Newman

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B Todd

My great grandfather, Harry Newman was born in Brighton in 1868. He married Bessie Hallett on 9th October 1917 (his second marriage).  He said his occupation was storekeeper. When a son Harry Sidney was born in the summer of 1918 Harry put his occupation down as soldier formerly vanman. I cannot find out why at the age of 50 he became a soldier and what he did. Just wondered if anyone can help me with this. Thank you.

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johnmelling1979
Posted (edited)

Hello

 

Just found the marriage certificate for Harry Newman and Bessie Hallett.

It actually says he is 40 so born in 1877 and not age 50 as you mentioned. and she was 26

 

Was he previously married to a Annie Alice Hallett in 1906 in Dorset as he is 28 then

 

Do you have any clues at all to military service?  

 

John

 

Edited by johnmelling1979

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B Todd

All correct apart from his age. I have a copy of his birth certificate and it is definitely 15th October 1868. It seems my family generally have a problem with age! I have no idea of his military service unfortunately.

Thanks for taking the time to look into it for me.

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clk

Hi,

 

I see that at the time of the marriage Harry was living in Weymouth. If there's a Dorset address on the birth certificate for Harry Sidney, you might be able to pick Harry (snr) up on the Dorset AVLs that Findmypast have - link. I didn't see him though.

 

Regards

Chris

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johnmelling1979
27 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi,

 

I see that at the time of the marriage Harry was living in Weymouth. If there's a Dorset address on the birth certificate for Harry Sidney, you might be able to pick Harry (snr) up on the Dorset AVLs that Findmypast have - link. I didn't see him though.

 

Regards

Chris

Worth a try 

With out more Military clues, its clutching at straws

Ancestry.co.uk is not bringing up anything more that the marriage certs and censuses 

And too many Harry Newmans

 

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George Rayner

It looks as though Annie and Bessie were sisters as father's name is the same. Maintained birth date for those two weddings as well. Strange.

 

George

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B Todd

Annie and Bessie were cousins and Harry didn't hang around to marry again!! The address was 3 Quiet Place, Melcombe Regis, Weymouth, Dorset.

Thanks again for trying to help. I do realise it is not easy and I had checked out ancestry with no luck.

 

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George Rayner

Cousins-despite father's name and profession the same on both register entries or have I read them wrong?

 

George

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B Todd

Thanks George. I will check but I was sure Annie's father was William and Bessie's father was Bernard.

Matthew and Elizabeth were Harry's parents. Matthew, Susie and Edmund were children from Matthew's previous marriage so Harry's step brothers/sister.

Brenda

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George Rayner

Yes sorry think you are correct. But both cutlers which is what put me off.

 

George

I expect you have seen his entry on 1871 census then?

Name: Harry Newman
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: 1869
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Brighton Sussex England
Civil Parish: Portslade
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Sussex

George

 

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George Rayner

And a third wife in 1891?

Name: Harry Newman
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1868
Spouse: Laura Newman
Birth Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Brighton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
Residence Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Registration district: Brighton
Sub registration district: St Peter

courtesy Ancestry

 

George

 

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George Rayner

Or still in Ipswich from 1881 census. This in 1891 return

Name: Harry Newman
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Relationship: Boarder
Birth Year: 1870
Birth Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
Residence Place: Ipswich, St Margaret, Suffolk, England
Registration district: Ipswich

 

George

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B Todd

I have worked on the second 1891 census i.e. still in Ipswich as a barman. His stepmother Eliza owned a beerhouse so that's why it fitted. In the 1901 census he is in Weymouth. I will just check out the Laura Newman scenario - best to be sure.

thank you so much for taking the time to look this up for me. All very helpful.

But his being a soldier in 1918 remains a mystery.

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B Todd

Have found out a bit more about Harry Newman. There was no connection with Laura in Brighton. I found a record for the Pension Record Ledger. Date of birth recorded as 1871. Discharged with a disability on 3.12.1918. Service no: T/407547. He was a Private in the ASC (Army). HIs wife Annie had died in 1917 and later that year he married Bessie. Not sure if anyone can give me any more information but if they can it would be brilliant. Thank you.

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travers61

The T in front of his corps number shows he served in the Horsed Transport part of the ASC. He would have been used to horses in his civvie occupation as a vanman.

 

More info on the ASC Horsed Transport here:

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-army-service-corps-in-the-first-world-war/

 

I could not find a medal roll index card or entry in the medal rolls, so possibly home service only.

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B Todd

Many thanks for this. At one time he was also a coachman so as you say used to horses.

 

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travers61

As discharged with a disability I checked the Silver War Badge Records:

 

T/4070547 Pte NEWMAN, Harry

RASC

enlisted 18.4.18

discharged 3.12.18

 Reason Sickness KR para 392 xvi

no overseas service

Silver war badge no 521705

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Hue5&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=2456&gsfn=harry&gsln=newman&cp=0&_F4E2F07A=407547&new=1&rank=1&uidh=5eb&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=818913&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=3d57c6a97cf4ec11184f9dd0fe72eb82

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B Todd

Brilliant. Thank you so much.

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travers61

 

 

By the winter of 1917/18 the British army was suffering a manpower crisis, and as well as reorganising the army in France into fewer battalions, this & the German Spring Offensive started in March 1918, was the cause of the Military conscription act being amended in April 1918 to increase the upper age of recruits from 40 to 50 (56 for some). Also men were sent overseas aged 18y 6m (prev 19 min) & men of lower medical grades such as B went abroad.

By his home service your great grandfather released another man for service abroad.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battles/the-british-armys-manpower-crisis-of-1918/

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B Todd

That is so interesting. Thank you for letting me know.

Harry has an amazing story. But he was a bit of a lad!!

I am just starting to research his father, Matthew and it is a bit like father, like son!!

Thanks again and keep safe.

Brenda

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