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[David Platt]

I haven't been able to pin down my Great Grandfather's unit.  He was from Tyldesley with Shakerly in Lancashire, I know he enlisted in October 1914, trained at Blackdown and then on to the Dardanelles.  He wrote to his wife on 9 June to say he was aboard a ship bound for the Mediterranean.  He further wrote on 18 July 1915 to say he had been injured on Friday morning 16 July 1915 and was being looked after on board a ship.  On 28 April 1916 he was severely injured and just before that he said he was with the Indian Expeditionary Force.  By the end of the war he had been sent to St Joseph's Sanatorium in Cheam and was part of the Essex Regiment.

 

He was reported wounded and as being in the East Lancashire Fusiliers but was not mentioned in the wounded for the East Lancashire Regiment.  I have a photo of him in Essex R (#45985) and he seems to have 2 wound stripes which look like they've been attached from another uniform.  He was invalided out of the Essex R 28 February 1918 and was awarded SWB B14432 8 April 1919.

 

I'd greatly appreciate any help in finding his unit so 'Watch and shoot'.  Cheers.

[PRC]

17 minutes ago, David Platt said:

I have a photo of him in Essex R (#45985)

 

The Medal Index Card for 45985 Thomas Cook only shows him serving overseas with the Essex Regiment. As it's a MIC also for his Silver War Badge it shows his date of enlistment as the 21st April 1915.

 

Are you sure you have the right man?

 

Cheers, ( and welcome to the Forum

 

Peter

[Polar Bear]

6th Service Battalion of the East Lancashire's trained at Blackdown Barracks (Aldershot) but supposedly did not leave from Avonmouth until 16th June. The first date of wounding however would easily fit. Not sure about the second.

 

EDIT - no units of the Essex's seem to have trained at Blackdown. Also, welcome to the Forum.

Edited 29 February , 2020 by Polar Bear

[Hywyn]

 

 

Is he Thomas Cook (senior) of 22 Argyle Street, Atherton?

 

[David Platt]

Thanks, Peter, and I have records from Essex R showing the 45000 series as having come from other regiments.  Is this possible - he served with a Lancashire regiment, was injured (at least twice) sent back to convalesce and from there into Essex R, found unfit while in St Joseph's, Cheam and discharged?  This is what I'm working on... Double MIC, perhaps?

 

Thanks.

[David Platt]

PB, he wasn't in Essex R until near the end of WW1 and seems to have come from another unit - I have some records which show this but T Cook's previous reg isn't noted. I've got MIC of a T Cook in East Lancs then East Yorks.  It's the newspaper item saying East Lancashire Fusiliers that throws me.

 

Hywyn, I have him 3 Chester St, Atherton in 1911.

 

David.

[Hywyn]

OK. Reason I was asking was that the Absent Voters for that area (Leight/Atherton/Tyldsley) only has the one Thomas Cook. He is shown as being 35964 East Lancs. Quick, but not exhaustive look does not tie that name/number/Regiment but there is a Thomas Cook East Lancs 16805 later E Yorks 35864. His Medal Roll shows his E Lancs service was with 6th Bn ( E Yorks with 1st Garrison Bn.

 

I can't put that SWB number to a Thomas Cook.

[Hywyn]

Stop press. I thought the AVL I had was in alphabetic. It's not. It also has him at 3 Chester Street as 35864 1st Garr E  Yorks

 

Cook    Thomas            4644 Atherton    South Ward    O    3 Chester Street        35864 Private    1 Garrison Battalion    East Yorkshire

[David Platt]

Okay, there is a smudge after the SWB ref I gave so it could be B144328 perhaps?  The address is from Census records so he could well have moved after 1911.  I've seen the East Lancs/Yorks MIC which has an asterisk next to East Lancs and 0/1/42 37 next to 15 star.  I don't know what either of these mean yet.

 

David.

[David Platt]

Just got the 'Stop-Press' and it looks like you've done it!  It would seem to be my GGF.  Thank you.  However, as a Lancashire man and having served with RRF the Yorkshire bit stick in the throat - Ha Ha.

 

Thank you very much.  I'm off to Lancashire soon so I suppose I can tie some loose ends.  Do you think there's any need to look any further or have you nailed it?

 

David.

[PRC]

19 minutes ago, Hywyn said:

OK. Reason I was asking was that the Absent Voters for that area (Leight/Atherton/Tyldsley) only has the one Thomas Cook. He is shown as being 35964 East Lancs. Quick, but not exhaustive look does not tie that name/number/Regiment but there is a Thomas Cook East Lancs 16805 later E Yorks 35864. His Medal Roll shows his E Lancs service was with 6th Bn ( E Yorks with 1st Garrison Bn.

 

 

Is that the 1918 AVL or the 1919 one?

 

As the MiC for the Essex Regiment man shows him discharged on the 28th February 1918 I presume the only reason he might have appeared on the AVL is if he was still receiving treatment at the Sanatorium.

 

As the 1918 Representation of the People Act didn't get Royal Assent until February 1918 and the work on the AVL only started after that, (as far as I can see from contemporary press reports), it's difficuly to see a period when he might have gone from the East Yorkshire Regiment (AVL) to Essex Regiment, (discharge unit on MiC), in the timescale available.

 

Or is the Essex Regiment man a red herring?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[David Platt]

I have a photo of T Cook which was verified by his daughter.  I had the shoulder titles enlarged professionally and it clearly shows 'ESSEX' so I don't think it's a herring red or otherwise.  His serious wound may have put him in St Joseph's (later a tuberculosis hospital  - from Cheam Historical Society) to be discharged 28 02 1918, isn't that possible?

 

It's getting muddy again!

 

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

David.

[Hywyn]

It's nailed inasmuch as Thomas Cook 3 Chester Street is in the AVL as 35864 E Yorks. How the Essex Reg man fits in I don't know.

Here's the Medal Roll (on Ancestry)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41629_625537_9572-00168?pid=5626571&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Da63-1742599%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26cp%3D0%26_F4E2F07A%3D35864%26_F4E2F07A_x%3D1%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Da63%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D8%26h%3D5626571%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D9%26queryId%3D8864adde4c9bc2297e7239063e202c1c&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=8864adde4c9bc2297e7239063e202c1c&usePUB=true&_phsrc=a63-1742599&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.40595554.1311933159.1582990340-936653208.1582990340

 

This shows he was discharged by means of transfer to Class Z Reserves** and not wounds/illness (i.e with a SWB) 

 

Looking at the Roll and paging backwards/forwards it looks like a block transfer from 6th East Lancs to 1st Garrison Bn E Yorks in alphabetic order staring with 35858 Adams to 35919 Walker (plus a couple more out of alphabetic sequence. It should be easy to find out when/where this transfer took place by finding any records that may have survived for some of these men. 1st Garrison Bn E Yorks served in India (see link) 6th E Lancs wre in Mespot theatre after Gallipoli. I'm give to understand that the base as such for that theatre was India.

 

E Lancs

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/east-lancashire-regiment/

E Yorks

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/east-yorkshire-regiment/

 

 

 

** lot of men discharged to this Reserve in case the amnesty went wrong and it kicked off again.

[Hywyn]

Peter

I don't know which year they are I'm afraid. I found them somewhere on the net.

[David Platt]

PRC I've looked at the SWB info (it is very faded) and it is 1919.  Does this make more sense?

 

Hywyn - I get a link to join Ancestry so I can't see the medal roll.  Thanks anyway.

 

David.

[Hywyn]

The Western Front Association pension ledgers have a card foe Thomas Alfred Cook 45985 Essex Reg which shows 45985 or 18965. It states he died 5 11 1920 and his dependant was his mother Mrs Elizabeth Day of 86 Knapp Road, Poplar East. Does this fit in with your family lore?

[Hywyn]

18965 Thomas Cook has surviving papers (has Elizabeth Day as NoK)

 

[David Platt]

Ha Ha, not even slightly!  Look dodgy on the Essex man front - how in Hell, I don't know. I'm off to find the blow-ups again.  Still, we're okay with T Cook East Lancs/Yorks are we?

 

David.

....and T Cook 45985 Essex?  or are they one and the same?

[PRC]

3 minutes ago, David Platt said:

PRC I've looked at the SWB info (it is very faded) and it is 1919.  Does this make more sense?

 

 

I only have a free account on Ancestry which gives me a view of the MiC. Definately 1918 and definately not faded.

 

Image courtesy of Ancestry,

 

Cheers,

Peter

[David Platt]

No I meant my copy of 'Claim To Silver War Badge' is faded and the writing is difficult to read although the 'Official' stamp does say 8 - APR 1919.  How on Earth does that fit in with what you've just sent me?  I suppose mistakes were made!

 

David.

[Hywyn]

Two different men David.

 

Thoams Cook from Atherton = 16805 E Lans/35864 E Yorks. Tied into your info as being at 3 Chester Street, Atherton. 

 

Thomas Cook from that there London area = 18965 Essex and 45985 Essex. Not fully looked at his papers yet but there's mentions of transfer to Labour Corps. He died of TB at Park Hospital, Hither Green, Catford of TB on 5 11 1920

Edited 29 February , 2020 by Hywyn

[David Platt]

Okay, thanks.  In your opinion then GGF T Cook is 16805 E Lans/35864 E Yorks.  Would you say that T C Essex is the herring red in colour?

 

Thank you for all your work.

 

David.

Am I able to find out what happened to T Cook GGF?

[Hywyn]

It's down to what you know about you GGF before doing any look ups I'd say. If you're happy about the Atherton address and the Gallipoli info etc then the Essex man is a red herring. Looks as if that ID of the photo is a bit sus but there again where did the photo come from? Also, that SWB badge number you gave doesn't tie in. Have you/the family got the actual badge?

[Hywyn]

Having said that the ID of the photo might still be spot on but the shoulder title has been misread i.e Essex instead of East Yorks and then look ups of a Thomas Cook Essex Regt produced the one above.

[PRC]

David,

 

I assume you're in the UK. If you don't already subscribe then your local public library is very likely to have a subscription to either Ancestry or FindMyPast, (and sometimes both), so you you should be able to see the documents via that route.

 

It's almost certain to also have access to the British Newspaper Archive. I mention that as contemporary newspapers may have a picture of him, perhaps from the time of the wounding. That would give you something to compare with the photograph you already have. Sadly memories fade over time and I know from approaching my own extended family members for help in identifying individuals in old pictures that mistakes get made. My icon is one such. Originally identified as the brother of my step-grandmother by one of her sisters, it turned out to be her sweetheart.

 

Cheers,

Peter