A contender for wierdest question here ever, I'm sure.

[Amitmis]

Hi,

 

I'm writing a novel about WW1, and I wanted to adress a topic in one of the episodes, but I just don't know enough about it, so I came here :-)

 

I read they were using slugs to detect mustard gas. My questions are:

 

1. When did they start using them? Right from the start?

2. Did every unit potentially subject to mustard gas use it?

3. Was it one slug per unit, or were there a bunch of them scattered around everywhere?

4. Were they, in fact, scattered around, or was there a designated space/place in which they were kept?

5. Was there a soldier at every given moment who's sole job was to monitor the slug for changes in its physical demeanor?

 

 

Weird questions, I am aware :-)

But quite interesting, don't you think? :-D

 

 

Thank you!

Amit.

[johnboy]

Where did you find that information?

[Waddell]

Seems to have been asked about before-

 

 

 

And even geese

 

Scott

[Amitmis]

Thank you, Scott.

 

I've read the references, and it kind-of answers only one question of mine (the first). It seems that they were used by the Americans in the final 4 months of the war.

 

So that's one down, 4 to go

 

I would love some more information :-)

 

 

Thanks again!

[Coldstreamer]

regarding #2, Ive read lots of books and diaries about the Coldstream Gds - never seen any mention of slugs

 

a fascination post none the less

[RaySearching]

I would have thought Snails would have been a better choice

At least they would have provided their own accommodation

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

So in conclusion Amitmis:

There was research done in 1918 on this subject, and it was postulated that this crazy sounding idea might have some sort of scientific basis and practical application, nobody appears to have been able to uncover any primary sources that prove that this ever found its way into military service during the Great War.

[phil andrade]

Canaries for gas detection in a coal mine ; slugs for sensing mustard gas on the battlefield ....not so outlandish, perhaps, especially when we consider that mustard gas was known to attack the mucus lining of the body, and slugs are nothing if not conspicuous for mucus like slime.

 

Phil

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

48 minutes ago, phil andrade said:

Canaries for gas detection in a coal mine ; slugs for sensing mustard gas on the battlefield ....not so outlandish, perhaps, especially when we consider that mustard gas was known to attack the mucus lining of the body, and slugs are nothing if not conspicuous for mucus like slime.

 

Phil

Well, that's not really how they work.

Mucous membranes in the body are quite localised to the mouth, nose , eyes, GI tract etc. whereas Mustard gas was also renowned for damaging ordinary(non mucous membrane) epithelial surfaces like skin.

It's not really much to do with the slime as the chemical damage it does is inside the epithelial cells.

Whether slug epithelial surfaces are a good model for human epithelial cells I don't know.

I think it's a conclusion jump too far.

[Amitmis]

On 28/02/2020 at 20:54, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

So in conclusion Amitmis:

There was research done in 1918 on this subject, and it was postulated that this crazy sounding idea might have some sort of scientific basis and practical application, nobody appears to have been able to uncover any primary sources that prove that this ever found its way into military service during the Great War.

 

So there's no proof of anyone actually using the slugs in the trenches?! That sucks :-D

 

So the places that mention that the americans used them in the final months of the war are wrong (or, at least, not based on any known accounts)?

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, Amitmis said:

So there's no proof of anyone actually using the slugs in the trenches?

If you can produce any contemporary evidence that they were actively used in the Great War to detect Mustard gas , then I would willingly change my mind.

The only primary references seem to be the research was carried out  into their possible use by the French (One French physiologist?) and the American/German Dr. Bartsch.

The latter is said to have shown that some changes were observed in slugs when they were exposed to Mustard Gas.

 

We then have a gap, whereby the internet is full of references to slugs having saved thousands of American lives after their widespread introduction.

Now it may be, that American war diaries and archives are full of first hand reports of specific references to slugs being used in thisrole, and men being trained to handle the beasts.

All I can say is that British sources are somewhat silent on the matter.

In all the years of following the GWF Forum, I have yet to see a quote from an actual war diary referencing the use of slugs.

There are members here who have transcribed complete diaries, but I can't recall ever having heard a mention of these molluscs actually being in use.

I've never seen an image of a slug transport cage/bottle, if one still survives, I would love to see one.

All I know is that in the Imperial forces, supplies of almost everything, Men, rations, weapons, ammunition, jam, were all delivered by the Army Service Corps.

In all the ASC diaries I have read, I have never seen a reference to delivering slugs or slug associated equipment.

I take that to mean that there were no such deliveries.

 

Neither is there is any mention of such equipment at the Imperial War Museum, perhaps the US National Archive have more information.

 

2 hours ago, Amitmis said:

So the places that mention that the americans used them in the final months of the war are wrong

All these sites seem to be quoting the same information almost verbatim, about the technique saving thousands of lives.

If that were so, would the US Army have kept that information secret from its Allies?

But we never get to know the primary source, no names of specific American battalions that used this technique.

It doesn't sound to me as this was ever implemented, but if anyone can produce primary evidence, then I could be persuaded.

Until then, I will take a rather sceptical view.

 

[Steven Broomfield]

9 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

If you can produce any contemporary evidence that they were actively used in the Great War to detect Mustard gas , then I would willingly change my mind.

The only primary references seem to be the research was carried out  into their possible use by the French (One French physiologist?) and the American/German Dr. Bartsch.

The latter is said to have shown that some changes were observed in slugs when they were exposed to Mustard Gas.

 

We then have a gap, whereby the internet is full of references to slugs having saved thousands of American lives after their widespread introduction.

 

 

 

You have missed one prime source: Baldrick had an, admittedly dead, slug called Graham as a companion. I believe the exact cause of Graham's demise was never revealed.

 

Just saying.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

6 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

You have missed one prime source: Baldrick had an, admittedly dead, slug called Graham as a companion. I believe the exact cause of Graham's demise was never revealed.

 

Just saying.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhh!

My entire argument dismissed by  the most incontrevertible primary source evidence possible.

Baaaaaah!

Edited 1 March , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Gareth Davies]

Pedant alert:

 

Mustard Gas isn't. 

[Steven Broomfield]

Oh, I say PETITION (closed)

 

Mrs Broomfield found it. Looks legit.

[Marilyne]

Well, it might have started with a "weird" question, I definitely learned something !! Never before today hears about the slugs in the trenches. 

The Genocide of the slugs (and poor Graham) aside, this is definitely a very interesting thread. 

But I wonder: a canari detecting gas will go mad and flap his wings around...a horse smelling gas will refuse to set another hoove forward, same for a dog... those are clear animal behaviours one can understand... do we have a slug-behaviourist around to tell us exactly how to interpret the - pun intended - "slug-gas-alarm-dance" ???? 

 

seriously now, Amit, I'd stick with a cat or a canari for your book, it will be far more realistic and readers will love a sympathetic little kitten as companion to your soldiers! 

 

M.

[Amitmis]

1 hour ago, Marilyne said:

Well, it might have started with a "weird" question, I definitely learned something !! Never before today hears about the slugs in the trenches. 

The Genocide of the slugs (and poor Graham) aside, this is definitely a very interesting thread. 

But I wonder: a canari detecting gas will go mad and flap his wings around...a horse smelling gas will refuse to set another hoove forward, same for a dog... those are clear animal behaviours one can understand... do we have a slug-behaviourist around to tell us exactly how to interpret the - pun intended - "slug-gas-alarm-dance" ???? 

 

seriously now, Amit, I'd stick with a cat or a canari for your book, it will be far more realistic and readers will love a sympathetic little kitten as companion to your soldiers! 

 

M.

 

Actually, that is for an episode that refers to all the animals that were used in the war. I'm going to mention them all, pretty much. But the general point is that when humans fight, they also draft millions of animals to die with them, in their service...

15 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

If you can produce any contemporary evidence that they were actively used in the Great War to detect Mustard gas , then I would willingly change my mind.

The only primary references seem to be the research was carried out  into their possible use by the French (One French physiologist?) and the American/German Dr. Bartsch.

The latter is said to have shown that some changes were observed in slugs when they were exposed to Mustard Gas.

 

We then have a gap, whereby the internet is full of references to slugs having saved thousands of American lives after their widespread introduction.

Now it may be, that American war diaries and archives are full of first hand reports of specific references to slugs being used in thisrole, and men being trained to handle the beasts.

All I can say is that British sources are somewhat silent on the matter.

In all the years of following the GWF Forum, I have yet to see a quote from an actual war diary referencing the use of slugs.

There are members here who have transcribed complete diaries, but I can't recall ever having heard a mention of these molluscs actually being in use.

I've never seen an image of a slug transport cage/bottle, if one still survives, I would love to see one.

All I know is that in the Imperial forces, supplies of almost everything, Men, rations, weapons, ammunition, jam, were all delivered by the Army Service Corps.

In all the ASC diaries I have read, I have never seen a reference to delivering slugs or slug associated equipment.

I take that to mean that there were no such deliveries.

 

Neither is there is any mention of such equipment at the Imperial War Museum, perhaps the US National Archive have more information.

 

All these sites seem to be quoting the same information almost verbatim, about the technique saving thousands of lives.

If that were so, would the US Army have kept that information secret from its Allies?

But we never get to know the primary source, no names of specific American battalions that used this technique.

It doesn't sound to me as this was ever implemented, but if anyone can produce primary evidence, then I could be persuaded.

Until then, I will take a rather sceptical view.

 

 

Until otherwise proved, I tend to agree. It probably never happened :-(

 

Anyway, thank you so much >3