Hythe

[alanthevet]

I have a letter written from my granduncle (Eddie Hartigan) to a friend of his at home, dated 23/10/1917.

In the letter he says......'Glad to hear C.R. is looking well. I haven't heard from her since I was at Hythe, but I'm not worrying much at present. Got something else to go on with my bhoy!'........

I would like to know about Hythe and what he would have been doing there.

Eddie enlisted with the 8th Munsters in August 1915. He was commissioned as temporary 2nd Lieutenant in late 1916. The 8th battalion amalgamated with the 1st Munsters around that time.

In mid-1917 he applied for the RFC. He went 'home?' in August and when he returned on the 28th September 1917 he was in 57 squadron, as an observer.

Could anybody tell me where Hythe would have come in?

Thanks in advance!

[Chris_Baker]

Hythe is on the coast of Kent. There was a considerable army facility there, but notably it was the base of the School of Musketry, where rifle and machine gun training was carried out.

[alanthevet]

Excellent Chris.

Now maybe you can tell me more. This man Eddie Hartigan, after he applied for the RFC whilst being a 2nd Lieutenant with the 1st Munsters, was 'home' for a period of time. When he returned it was to the RFC.

Was 'home' likely to have been leave (home to Ireland), or would it have meant training?

I am trying to piece together the events of August and September 1917.

Eddie's brother Luke was KIA in Ypres on or about 15/8/17.

I know that Eddie was in the RFC as an observer on 2/10/17 because he is credited with some victories for 57 squadron on that day.

I had thought all along that Eddie would have been in training with the RFC for a few months before seeing live action. This would have meant that Eddie was not with Luke when he was killed.

However, only a fortnight ago I discovered this :-

The Sixth Supplement to the London Gazette of Tuesday, the 16th of October 1917 (Gazette Issue 30342):

"The undermentioned temp, appts. are made:

. . .-Flying Officers (Observers). 29th Sept.1917: -

. . .28th Sept. 1917, with seniority from 23rd Aug. 1917:-

. . .Temp. 2nd Lt. E. P. Hartigan, R. Muns..Fus."

This changed things. Now it appeared that Eddie was still with the 1st Munsters when his brother was killed. Maybe that influenced his decision to go.

Last week, things changed again. My uncle found a letter written to Eddie and Luke's mother by a 2nd Lieutenant Borthistle. It was a letter of sympathy to her and was a lovely gesture. Borthistle was with Eddie and Luke in the 1st Munsters and applied to be moved to the RFC with Eddie.

This is an extract from the letter :-

I simply feel now that my best pal in the World has gone. The Munsters lost dear old Luke just after Eddie and I left them, that was a bad enough blow for me, as he was in my own platoon all the time I was with the 1st Battalion, then Eddie and I applied for the R.F.C. together, came home together, and returned out here, but unfortunately could not get to the same Squadron. However after about seven weeks separation by jolly good luck we got on to the same aerodrome, and we saw quite a lot of each other....

So Eddie had in fact left before Luke was killed.

Was he 'home' at the time? Did he get the news at home?

I know that I will probably never know but...

[staunton]

Just checking 1st Munsters War diary - for the battle of Messines 7th June 1917, E P Hartigan was with HQ Coy as Bn Signalling Officer.

The War diary is not very detailed for July 1917 and just gives numbers for those arriving or departing the battalion, ie no names for officers. No mention of him in August 1917 either. His officer file at TNA does not give further details in this regard WO 339/73934

(Do not see Borthistle listed as part of the officers present but he may have been left out in the Battle surplus - he first arrived in France 7th december 1915, presumably being posted to 2nd Munsters as the only Bn of the regiment then in the BEF - he died in January 1918 with the RFC and was the only child or a retired artillery officer from Dublin)

[stevem49]

There is also a Hythe opposite Southampton - did that have any WW1 facilities?

[staunton]

sorry, I did not go back far enough in the 1st RMF War Diary !

Per 1st Munster's War diary, Borthistle arrived to that Bn 10 March 1917 with 2 other officers and 5 ORs.

He left on 16th June 1916 with bn signals officer E P Hartigan, both for RFC training.