No Regiment or service number

[LeeP]

Hi

My grandfather George William Cartwright turned 18 on 10th February 1918 and I assume would have been conscripted soon after.

 

Unfortunately the family have no idea as to how he served his country other than the idea that he was involved with horses, we have no regiment or service number. 

 

I have searched on ancestry but haven't found anything concrete, any suggestions as to how I can proceed would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

Lee

[david murdoch]

There is a service  record for a George William Cartwright  born 1900  Father George Henry and served in the Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment  Called up Lincoln 29/4/1918 and went to France 19/11/1918. Does father's name and place of abode fit?

[LeeP]

Just now, david murdoch said:

There is a service  record for a George William Cartwright  born 1900  Father George Henry and served in the Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment  Called up Lincoln 29/4/1918 and went to France 19/11/1918. Does father's name and place of abode fit?

David

Thanks for replying and the suggestion, unfortunately this is not a match.

My grandfathers father's name was John. He was from High Ongar/ Chipping Ongar Essex, the nearest larger towns being Brentwood, Epping or the county town of Chelmsford.

Lee

[johnboy]

Even at this late stage of the war, was the rule regarding serving overseas before the age of 19yrs still in force

[BillyH]

Wasn't it 18+1/2 years at the end of the war?

 

BillyH.

[johnboy]

Not sure, just trying to see if he served overseas

[LeeP]

May not have gone overseas but I believe he was still conscripted.

Were there horse depots to resupply to the the losses?

[tullybrone]

3 hours ago, LeeP said:

May not have gone overseas but I believe he was still conscripted.

Were there horse depots to resupply to the the losses?

 

 

Hi,

 

The sister site has the answer to your “resupply” aka “remount” query.

 

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-army-service-corps-in-the-first-world-war/the-army-service-corps-remounts-service/

 

Steve

[LeeP]

2 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

 

 

Hi,

 

The sister site has the answer to your “resupply” aka “remount” query.

 

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-army-service-corps-in-the-first-world-war/the-army-service-corps-remounts-service/

 

Steve

Thanks Steve

Aldershot seems the most likely option

Regards

Lee

[kenf48]

16 hours ago, BillyH said:

Wasn't it 18+1/2 years at the end of the war?

 

Following the German Spring Offensive in March and the fact it was regarded as a national emergency in April 1918 the Government decided soldiers aged eighteen and a half, with at least six months training could be sent to F & F for front line duty.  On the 7th August 1918 this emergency decision was withdrawn and eligibility for active service overseas reverted to nineteen.

 

Pte Cartwright would have been placed on the Army Reserve on attaining eighteen years, but my guess, and it is only a guess, is that he was probably called up in April 1918 and would have been posted to the Training Reserve, and from there to a Reserve Infantry Battalion.  All infantry battalions, both at home and overseas had horses.  He would have needed specialist skill, or at the very least experience, before being posted to Army Remounts. 

 

It is highly unlikely he was posted to active service overseas before the Armistice.  It is possible he went on to serve in the Army of Occupation in Germany, for which there was no medal entitlement, but one of the post Armistice grievances of men in France was that often men in training in the U.K. were simply sent home once hostilities ceased on the Western Front.

 

Ken

 

 

[johnboy]

Thanks for a comprehensive explanation,Ken

[LeeP]

Ken

 

This is really interesting stuff and seems a very plausible scenario for my grandfather's service.

 

I've definitely learned something new here but I do have a couple of questions;

 

1) Why would he possibly not have been called up until April, assuming from this that there is a general 8 week gap this surely reduces the army's overall strength and capabilities?

 

2) Were the army Training Reserve based at a particular location or were they trained and barracked at various locations.

 

Many thanks  for the very detailed response,. It is greatly appreciated

 

Lee

[kenf48]

5 hours ago, LeeP said:

 

 

1) Why would he possibly not have been called up until April, assuming from this that there is a general 8 week gap this surely reduces the army's overall strength and capabilities?

 

2) Were the army Training Reserve based at a particular location or were they trained and barracked at various locations.

 

 

1) Under the terms of the Military Service Act an eighteen year old was deemed to have been enlisted on coming of age, and placed on the Army Reserve. In 1918 he would be posted to a Young Soldier Battalion of the Training Reserve 

see https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/definitions-of-units/what-was-the-young-soldier-battalion-of-the-training-reserve/

 

As I said it was only a guess he was called up in April.  Prior to March 1918 men were deliberately being held in the U.K. for political reasons, and the BEF was forced to undergo a major reorganisation. It’s a generalisation but men were not necessarily mobilised immediately after their eighteenth birthday.   If, however, he had been called up for service in February six months would take us to July and he would have been in the frame for posting to the BEF under the ‘emergency’ provisions and we could perhaps find him in the Medal Records. Though there are a lot of George Cartwrights!

 

2) The Graduated Battalion of Training Reserve were organised according to the Army Command Districts in the U.K.  Essex was, I believe, in the Eastern Command District. See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/training-reserve/training-reserve-remodelled-in-1917/

 

Without a service record men who did not go overseas left few traces of their Army service.  If you can find the Absent Voter List  for High Ongar he may be listed.  There are some AVLs for Essex on Find My Past but nothing is jumping out.  Sometimes war memorials, usually church memorials list those who served as well as those who died.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

[LeeP]

Ken

Unfortunately the AVL will not help in my grandfather's case as under the terms of the Representation of the People Act 1818 the vote was only extended to all men over 21 the exception being men over 19 who were in uniform and on active service at the time of an election.

Thanks

Lee

Edited 16 February , 2020 by LeeP
Now updated information

[kenf48]

24 minutes ago, LeeP said:

 

Unfortunately the AVL will not help in my grandfather's case as under the terms of the Representation of the People Act 1818 the vote was only extended to all men over 21 the exception being men over 19 who were in uniform and on active service at the time of an election.

 

 

An observation, I said he may be listed. There is no consistency either in the compilation of records, or their retention in this period but by no means all the 'breadcrumbs' are online.

 

Ken

[LeeP]

14 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

 

An observation, I said he may be listed. There is no consistency either in the compilation of records, or their retention in this period but by no means all the 'breadcrumbs' are online.

 

Ken

Indeed, I shall be consulting the parish registers, the local war memorials in this case are restricted to those who fell.

Lee

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

With regard to the chances of serving abroad at 18.

CWGC lists nearly 4200 18 year olds who died overseas in 1918 alone, the vast majority in France and Belgium.

And just over 100 17 year Olds.

Edited 16 February , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[LeeP]

1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

With regard to the chances of serving abroad at 18.

CWGC lists nearly 4200 18 year olds who died overseas in 1918 alone, the vast majority in France and Belgium.

And just over 100 17 year Olds.

That's interesting thank you