Dorsetshire Regt cap query

[Alisonmallen62]

My relative Sgt Reg H Allen MM (then cpl) is wearing a different cap at his 1917 wedding compared to that of his father in law Joe Fairbrother.  I know the regiments were Dorsetshire and Royal Warwickshire but can anyone explain about the caps and what is on the sleeve of Reg’s uniform please.  I couldn’t find quite what I was looking for in the many forum responses about caps.  Thank you

[FROGSMILE]

Reg is a full corporal (2-stripes) in the Dorset’s and wears a ‘bombers’ (hand grenade throwers) woven worsted badge above his rank, and Joe is in the Royal Warwicks.  Reg also has a so-called ‘battle patch’ made from coloured cloth on his upper sleeve that showed his battalion’s nominal position of seniority within the ‘brigade’ (which comprised 4, or later 3 battalions).

 

Joe has black gauze wrapped around his second tunic button, which was known as a ‘mourning button’ (adopted since Queen Victoria) and worn unofficially to show the death of someone close, often another male member of the family.

 

NB.  Reg has the soft topped trench cap that was adopted in 1916, whereas Joe seems to have an earlier pattern of cap (probably 1905 type) whose shape and smartness was kept intact by a circular wire and buckram stiffening.

 

Edited 10 February , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

Looking at your signature, could Joes mourning button be for Alfred Fairbrother? 

[Alisonmallen62]

Many thanks indeed for this wonderful information.  Yes Alfred had not long been killed sadly.  So Reg threw grenades then.  The more I find out about him the more I wish I had had an opportunity to meet him.  I wonder if grenade throwing was involved when he got his MM in the Battle of Amiens.  We dnt know when he became a Sergeant but maybe towards the end of 1917. Thanks again 

Edited 18 February , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[Alisonmallen62]

A further three questions if you dnt mind?  How did you become a grenade thrower? Was this something all soldiers had to do or was it a specialised role.  I imagine it meant getting relatively close to the enemy also.  Why does Reg wear a light coloured belt but Joe doesn’t appear to wear one? What is under Reg’s cap badge is it light reflecting on a band or something else? 
reg’s father stands beside him in this photo and we know one of the ladies sitting is a sister.  

Edited 18 February , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, Alisonmallen62 said:

A further three questions if you dnt mind?  How did you become a grenade thrower? Was this something all soldiers had to do or was it a specialised role.  I imagine it meant getting relatively close to the enemy also.  Why does Reg wear a light coloured belt but Joe doesn’t appear to wear one? What is under Reg’s cap badge is it light reflecting on a band or something else? 
reg’s father stands beside him in this photo and we know one of the ladies sitting is a sister.  

Hello Allison, to answer your queries:

 

1.  All soldiers learned and practised throwing a grenade, and later in the war each soldier would usually carry two during an attack on the enemy lines.  Early in the war only the Germans had grenades (a stick type) and initially British soldiers improvised their own type from old tins packed with explosives and makeshift shrapnel.  Men who could throw well, such as those who practiced cricket bowling were eventually gathered into platoons that specialised in grenade throwing using properly developed and mass manufactured grenades.  These were carried initially in haversacks and later in vests with pockets, and using them an enemy trench, once entered, could be cleared from end to end.

 

2.  Reg is wearing a belt disconnected  from his 1908 pattern web equipment that has then been either, scrubbed with soap and bleach to lighten it, or coated with a paste that is specifically designed to whiten.  Originally this was called pipe clay, and in more recent times it was produced already prepared in a tin by a company called Blanco that became synonymous with the practice. Bizarre though the process may seem, it was thought to give a smarter, ‘clean’, appearance.  He would have learned this from old soldiers with pre-war experience.

 

3.  There is nothing behind Reg’s badge, it is just the photographers flash reflecting off the polished leather of the chinstrap on his forage cap.

 

Edited 18 February , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Alisonmallen62]

Thank you again.  The first thing I did was look up grenade throwing and saw the same photos.  I read about mark 1 and 5 grenades.  I realised it would also be part of training but until you explained his badge it hadn’t occurred to me there were platoons for this.  When I read this to my husband he said ‘funny that, I was good at throwing’ - thankfully he’s hasn’t had to demonstrate that skill in war.  We know Reg was a keen football fan but dnt know if he played it or cricket so Perhaps he had practised throwing or maybe  it was a natural ability to throw.  He did go to a grammar school where we know they played cricket.  What did strike me from the photos was the stance taken to throw particularly as it conjured up in my mind going over the top and standing to throw - giving the enemy an easy target perhaps.  I have seen many films where grenades are being thrown into trenches so will look on it in a different light.  The more we find out the bigger this man becomes to us.  
 

very interesting about the belt and I guess taking a pride in his appearance especially for his wedding. 

[FROGSMILE]

12 hours ago, Alisonmallen62 said:

Thank you again.  The first thing I did was look up grenade throwing and saw the same photos.  I read about mark 1 and 5 grenades.  I realised it would also be part of training but until you explained his badge it hadn’t occurred to me there were platoons for this.  When I read this to my husband he said ‘funny that, I was good at throwing’ - thankfully he’s hasn’t had to demonstrate that skill in war.  We know Reg was a keen football fan but dnt know if he played it or cricket so Perhaps he had practised throwing or maybe  it was a natural ability to throw.  He did go to a grammar school where we know they played cricket.  What did strike me from the photos was the stance taken to throw particularly as it conjured up in my mind going over the top and standing to throw - giving the enemy an easy target perhaps.  I have seen many films where grenades are being thrown into trenches so will look on it in a different light.  The more we find out the bigger this man becomes to us.  
 

very interesting about the belt and I guess taking a pride in his appearance especially for his wedding. 

The Soldiers were trained to throw from cover, Alison, just like is depicted in the drawing of three men together below a parapet. The photograph of a man exposed and standing poised to throw with other men in the background, is practice-throwing, almost certainly with an ‘inert’ (without explosives) grenade.  Sometimes even stones of approximate weight and size were used if convenient.  It enabled the safe practice of accuracy, and even injected an element of fun and competition in the training.  Grenades were usually lobbed quite short distances across the top of traverses within trenches as they were cleared, and towards the latter part of the war when reinforced concrete bunkers were encountered, it became common to use a technique known as ‘posting’ the grenade, through the gun embrasures (slits) from which the guns were firing.

Edited 19 February , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Alisonmallen62]

Ok thank you that is somewhat more of a relief and could go some wAy to explain how he survived that war.  It seems a more sensible option than the one conjured up in my mind!  I have seen on tv grenades being thrown and into slits etc.  I think the practice picture had led me to think they were t taking cover!  I often wonder how the war affected him and we will never know.  It is possible he just carried on and the photos we have show that he made an effort to have a happy life.  At least we know a bit more about him now thanks to you.