AngieB Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Hello there, new to this site, i can see some excellent replies to an awful lot of enquires and i hope you can help me too. I have attached family military postcard pictures of who i believe to be Alfred Royle. The challenge i have is that i have an Alfred Royle born 1900 and his father Athur Royle born 1890. We know very little about these two young men other than that they were brothers; sons to Alfred Royle and Emma Dorsett Married August 1887. my question is does anyone know the regiment based on his or their uniforms and where they may have fought. Like many families no one talked about the war and the only things handed down are the post cards. I have access to ancestry but i have lost count how many alfred and arthur Royle i have looked at. Many thanks for you kind help in advance. regards angieB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 26 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Sorry, also, Alfred’s father appears also to be alfred; born 1865 all from Flixton. The post cards could all be Alfred (which one though) rather than one being Arthur. Sorry if this is confusing. But i hope someone can help me. Kind regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 January , 2020 Admin Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Welcome to the forum . I assume you mean Alfred born 1900 and his brother Arthur born 1890? I will move this to the uniforms section so the uniform gurus can get a good look. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 26 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Thank you Michelle, you are very kind. Please accept my apologies for placing it in the wrong list. Kind regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 January , 2020 Admin Share Posted 26 January , 2020 No worries. Could the top picture be Cheshire Yeomanry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 26 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2020 I am not sure, i actually thought it looked like the Welsh Regiment badge but I'm afraid i don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 January , 2020 Admin Share Posted 26 January , 2020 @FROGSMILE can you help please? thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 (edited) On 26/01/2020 at 18:53, Michelle Young said: @FROGSMILE can you help please? thank you Hello Michelle, Both photos seem to show the same man. In any case the unit is a battalion of the Welsh Regiment (formerly 41st and 69th Regiments of Foot). The regimental depot and HQ was in Cardiff (the barracks, at ‘Maindy’ still stands) and the regiment recruited predominantly from that city and the South Wales valleys and mining communities, as well as Pembrokeshire. The uppermost photo shows a blue patrol uniform with Welsh Regiment collar badge pre-WW1. The second photo shows a man in tropical khaki drill and was probably taken in Egypt or India. His Wolseley pattern helmet has the Welsh Regiment flash formed from coloured ribbons stitched to its side. The three colours were white, red/crimson and a darkish green. The spelling of the regimental title changed from Welsh, to Welch in 1920. NB. The blue patrol uniform confirms the man as a regular (professional) army soldier of the 1st or 2nd Battalion of the Welsh Regiment. The photos almost certainly show a member of the 1st Battalion that in August 1914 was at Chakrata, India, and part of the Dehra Dun Brigade in Meerut Division. The 1st Battalion returned to England, landing at Plymouth on 22 December 1914. Edited 28 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 26 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Thank you so much for your time and feedback FROGSMILE, you are very kind. Yes we thought it was the same person. Trying to track down his service record all to no avail im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 4 minutes ago, AngieB said: Thank you so much for your time and feedback FROGSMILE, you are very kind. Yes we thought it was the same person. Trying to track down his service record all to no avail im afraid. I am glad to help a little, Angie. Fear not, there are some wonderful genealogical detectives here in the forum and they will soon respond to this challenge to track down the available history pertaining to your forebears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Coming from a different angle The reverse of the postcard reads From your ever loving son Alfred to all at home hoping your all had a good time at Xmas Alfred Royal born 1900 the son of Alfred and Emma would have been only aged 14 at the outbreak of the war so we can discount him as a pre war serviceman and the photo shows a much older man Arthur Royal born 1888 the son of Alfred and Emma is shown on the 1901 census aged 13 On the 1911 census aged 23 employed as a railway clerk on the 1901 census aged 13 employed in a cotton mill For the photo to be Arthur Royal he would have had to have served between the 1901 and 1911 censuses or after 1911 Yet inscribed on the rear of the postcard reads From your ever loving son Alfred Which indicates that the photos MAY be of Alfred the father of Alfred and Arthur or am i missing something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 26 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2020 (edited) Hi, i have tried to find Alfreds army service record to look at what medals he may have received. I seem to be at a loss to find his service record, or anything for ‘The Welch Regiment’ or Welsh Regiment; could you please help? we have a father (birth year 1865) and son(birth year 1900) same names; and cannot locate either service record. Both from Flixton, Manchester). I am not sure where to look. I have joined fold3 but nothing looks right because of the regiment. Edited 26 January , 2020 by AngieB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 If the photo's are of Alfred (the father) he may not have served during the Great war (pre war only) so he would not have a great war medal entitlement ! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 8 hours ago, AngieB said: I have attached family military postcard pictures of who i believe to be Alfred Royle. Do we have any other candidates ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 27 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2020 Many thanks, yes I thought it was the father too but i am still searching for his service history . Kind regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, AngieB said: Many thanks, yes I thought it was the father too but i am still searching for his service history . Kind regards Angie, this has been puzzling me, but I think that I might have stumbled upon the solution. The 2nd Battalion of the Welsh Regiment were in Shanghai, China, from 1927 to 1935 and I think that your photo does show the son, ‘Alfred’, rather than the father, but that it is from between the wars in China. This means that the military record of the Alfred concerned is likely still available, as it is post-war and so not destroyed during the 1940s Blitz. I enclose a photo of another Welsh Regiment soldier from that time for comparison. Before WW1 a metal cap badge was worn on the Wolseley helmet by the 1st Battalion, but the 2nd Battalion used the ribbon flash on the helmet in 1927. NB. It suggests that Alfred was probably around 27, as a minimum at the time of the photo, which from his general appearance looks about right. Edited 27 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 Well thought out Frogsmile I think you have cracked it cheers Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 27 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2020 (edited) Wow Frogsmile, thank you. I thought i was going a little stir crazy with it because all the photos i saw had short trousers too, i would never have thought China though. Its not helped that he wasn't wearing any lapel emblems either haha. Its not easy is it i am so glad everyone on the forum are very knowlegable Edited 27 January , 2020 by AngieB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, RaySearching said: Well thought out Frogsmile I think you have cracked it cheers Ray Thanks Ray, it’s all team work on this forum I think and everyone brings some knowledge, which is great. Edited 27 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, AngieB said: Wow Frogsmile, thank you. I thought i was going a little stir crazy with it because all the photos i saw had short trousers too, i would never have thought China though. Its not helped that he wasn't wearing any lapel emblems either haha. Its not easy is it i am so glad everyone on the forum are very knowlegable Hello Angie, I’m glad to have been able to help. I suspect that Alfred had either lost, or perhaps more likely not yet been issued his collar badges at the time of the photo. Collar badges weren’t worn officially by ranks below commissioned officer until 1922 and it took until 1924 before they were universal, as it was quite a big job to distribute so many across the various regiments at stations worldwide. The Welsh Regiment were able to wear shorts and shirt sleeves rolled up in hot weather (i.e. summer) during the day, but after 6pm at night they had to wear long trousers and long sleeves as a very basic precaution to minimise mosquito bites and the Malaria that they carried. Edited 28 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 (edited) And below is a full length photo showing the blue patrol uniform that Alfred is wearing in the first photo that you posted. This was the best uniform by that time and used for reviews, etc. NB. Notice the wearing of shoes, a new thing, as previously only boots were issued. Edited 28 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 28 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2020 Thank you so much Frogsmile, great feedback. I am still search for his service record although given the time i have spent it will probably need to be taken up by someone with a greater mind than i. This is the first picture i have seen with the sam jcket and the Welch badge on the collar. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 January , 2020 Share Posted 28 January , 2020 3 hours ago, AngieB said: Thank you so much Frogsmile, great feedback. I am still search for his service record although given the time i have spent it will probably need to be taken up by someone with a greater mind than i. This is the first picture i have seen with the sam jcket and the Welch badge on the collar. Thank you. For ‘other ranks’ (i.e. below commissioned officer) who served after 1920, officers who served after 1922 including those who served during the Second World War and members of the Home Guard (except Durham) – their service records are held by the Army Personnel Centre at Kentigern House, in Glasgow. Full records will be released to proven next of kin. Only very basic information about deceased service personnel will be released to other enquirers, with slightly more detail made available 25 years after the date of death. The fee is currently £30 and there may be a lengthy wait for this service.Download the application forms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieB Posted 28 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2020 Wonderful, thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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