Swagger Stick Question

[BeppoSapone]

Does anyone know if European soldiers carried swagger sticks during WW1? Or, were swagger sticks purely used by the English speaking nations?

The reason that I ask is that I had a great uncle who was born in Italy, but lived in Lincolnshire. In 1915 he returned to Italy and was in the 10th Fortress Artillery.

In his photo he has a swagger stick. Did the other Italian soldiers have them as well, or was this some fancy innovation he had brought with him from England?

[Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk]

Have a photo of my G.Dad in 1st Batt D.C.L.I. taken in 1914 carrying a cane as they were officially known as,indeed many of the posed photographs taken during or just after basic training show many Soldiers holding these items,the same goes for a lot of photos taken during the Victorian and latter eras,T.E.Lawrence aka Lawrence of Arabia mentions in his book THE MINT the correct procedure for walking out whilst carrying a cane,this was after WW1 when he had enlisted in the RAF in an attempt to escape from the glare of publicity.

[PhilB]

I often wondered about swagger sticks. I thought they might be a reminder of the riding crop which a gentleman would carry, but I eventually decided they were for officers to poke things they wouldn`t want to touch, like dirty brasses or webbing, or, in an extreme example, a dangling short arm at an inspection of private parts!

Phil B

Interesting quote:-

"Swagger sticks" evolved from the "leading cane" prescribed for British officers in a General Order of 1702. On parade, this cane was used for leading men. But it was also used administering on-the-spot punishment of up to 12 strokes for minor violations of regulations. Examples of the latter were:

sneezing in ranks,

scratching the head, or

giving an officer a dirty look.

[BeppoSapone]

I often wondered about swagger sticks. I thought they might be a reminder of the riding crop which a gentleman would carry, but I eventually decided they were for officers to poke things they wouldn`t want to touch, like dirty brasses or webbing, or, in an extreme example, a dangling short arm at an inspection of private parts!

Phil B

Interesting quote:-

"Swagger sticks" evolved from the "leading cane" prescribed for British officers in a General Order of 1702. On parade, this cane was used for leading men. But it was also used administering on-the-spot punishment of up to 12 strokes for minor violations of regulations. Examples of the latter were:

sneezing in ranks,

scratching the head, or

giving an officer a dirty look.

Phil

Of course, they gave the officer a dirty look after being hit with the swagger stick!

Once again a British Army example though. Were swagger sticks carried by European armies? Any photographic evidence?

I am just trying to find out if great uncle Vince saw British soldiers with a stick, thought "I like that, I'll start a fashion" and purchased one in Stamford. Then took it with him when he went to Italy to enlist.

[Greg1]

Think I have seen photos of pre Great War Austrian and Italian soldiers carrying them will see if I can find them in my collection

Greg

[BeppoSapone]

Think I have seen photos of pre Great War Austrian and Italian soldiers carrying them will see if I can find them in my collection

Greg

Thanks Greg.

I look forward to seeing them.

Its starting to look as if Uncle Vince was a copycat rather than a trend setter.

[Chris Best]

BeppoSapone et al

"Swagger sticks" evolved from the "leading cane" prescribed for British officers in a General Order of 1702

To my recent knowledge, there is a number of different kinds of sticks/canes used by Commonwealth armies:

The swagger stick in the photo looks typical of that often carried by junior non-commissioned ranks. Usually had a silver top and regimental badge. Sometimes was a riding crop. Popular with regimental policemen!

The silver-topped, regimental-badged cane was carried by SNCOs in line regiments and at training establishments.

The pace stick could only be carried by SNCOs and WOs who successfully completed the All Arms Drill Course run by the Guards. I have read that the historical purpose of the pace stick was to ensure precision in siting guns. If that is so, why is its award not confined to gunners?

Then there's the officer's cane, a standard rattan cane, sometimes covered in leather, but never (in my experience) embellished. Dismounted officers would carry this, mounted officers would probably carry a crop. Again, I'm led to believe that the officer's cane had a gunnery function, it was used for sighting cannon, hence its 'standardization'.

I present myself as a Figure 11 target to the Gunner and Guards fraternity!

Chris

[SirJames]

The pace stick could only be carried by SNCOs and WOs who successfully completed the All Arms Drill Course run by the Guards. I have read that the historical purpose of the pace stick was to ensure precision in siting guns. If that is so, why is its award not confined to gunners?

Hello Folks,

To my understanding, the pace stick was used by the Guards (and other regiments) to establish distances while on parade, as well as set the pace when marching on parade. The SNCO would set the length of stride with the pace stick, and thus establish the pace the exact speed/distance of movement of the unit on parade. Having seen fairly modern footage of the Guards parading with a pace stick, it is very cool to see and makes for crisp movement. While they may have been used to site guns, they did/do have other uses which would explain why they are not confined to gunners.

Speaking of the All Arms Drill Course that the Guards run, do you have any more details on the curriculum? Does the course date to WWI or is it a modern development? Who knows, this may lead to a new thread!

You guys really have tons of great information!

Cheers!

Jim Higginbottom

[Arnie]

Regimental canes were used by all ranks not issued but purchased. Up to 1914 all ranks carried them walking out. Certain Privates and NCO's carried them on Regimental Duties.

Regiments had them, it was supposed to aid deportment. NCO's told the men it was to keep their hands out of their pockets!!!!

The pace stick was in use long before the Guards had their All Arms Drill course it was issued to a scale of seven per battalion I think it is three now. Light Infantry & Rifle regiments were issued a pace stick one per battalion

Light Infantry soldiers had a cane with a white metal cap with the Regimental Badge, Officers & Warrant officers had a black laquered cane with a silver ball top.

The DLI WOs carried a largeblack 'stick' with silver cap with regimental badge.

Stick drll was taught on all NCO's Cadres.

Arnie

PS apart from the Guards the two world wars virtually saw the end of 'stick' issued to soldiers.

[PhilB]

Probably not related, but my brother was in REME in 1950-52. When going on guard mounting they were inspected and the smartest man was deemed to be "stick man" and let off guard duty. This didn`t happen a few years later when I was in. They didn`t actually carry sticks at any time, but presumably there may be some connection? Phil B