Researching Walter Sumner 123966 Royal Field Artillery 95th D Battery

[ChurchFarm]

Hi....

 

Am hoping to find more information about a gentleman called 

Walter Sumner 123966 of the Royal Field Artillery 95th D Battery

Died 9th September 1918.

 

Any help or advise would be gratefully received.

 

Thankyou

[jonbem]

Hi and welcome to the forum

CWGC Record click link

GunnerSUMNER, W

Service Number 123966

Died 09/09/1918

Aged 33

"D" Bty. 95th Bde.
Royal Field Artillery

Son of John Sumner, of Ormskirk, Lancs.; husband of Maud Jane Sumner, of Church Farm, Shipmeadow, Beccles, Suffolk.

 

regards

Jon

[charlie962]

Welcome to the Forum, ChurchFarm.

 

There is some info on this link Lives of the First World War

 

Charlie

[ChurchFarm]

Thankyou, 

 

Walter lived at Church Farm where we are now. We have a vintage style Aviation House with WW1 and WW2 memorabilia and we would like to put some form of Memorial up, for Walter as he lived here, as well as those lost when a B24 Liberator crashed on our site in 1944. 

[jonbem]

The war diary for the 95 Brigade RFA is on National Archives for a fee of £3.50

HERE on Ancestry but doesn't say much

regards Jon

 

 

[charlie962]

Died 9/9/18 of Wounds recieved in Action. (source Pension Card)

 

The cemetery is described as:

Etricourt was occupied by Commonwealth troops at the beginning of April 1917 during the German withdrawal to the Hindenburg Line. It was lost on the 23 March 1918 when the Germans advanced, but regained at the beginning of September. The cemetery was begun in 1917 and used until March 1918, mainly by the 21st and 48th Casualty Clearing Stations posted at Ytres, and to a small extent by the Germans, who knew it as "Etricourt Old English Cemetery". Burials were resumed by Commonwealth troops in September 1918 and the 3rd Canadian and 18th Casualty Clearing Stations buried in it in October and November 1918

 

So he probably died at a CCS.

 

Edit- Soldiers Effects show he died at 63rd Field Ambulance (name spelt summers). Gratuity 11-00-00

Edited 24 January , 2020 by charlie962

[jonbem]

Diary mentions CHAPEL HILL & LOWLAND TRENCH

McMaster map search

Trench Name	Nearest Place	Map Sheet Number	Map Squares
Lowland Trench	Villers-Guislain	57cSE4	W 11 b, 12 c

Trench Name	Nearest Place	Map Sheet Number	Map Squares
Chapel Redoubt [Chapel Hill]	Villers-Guislain	57cSE4	W 18 a, b
Chapel Hill [S of Gouzeaucourt]	Villers-Guislain	57cSE4	W 12 c, 18 a, b

[The Inspector]

Hi All

Soldiers' effects "Died 63rd Field Amb. France, 9.9.18."

He was one of 8 children , parents John Sumner and his wife Jane Barton. Walter was born 12.12.1884 Ormskirk, Lancs, Here is a photo of his father.

Married Maud Jane Galer, 1.1.1912 @ Shipmeadow, Suffolk.

Public Tree on Ancestry

 

Regards Barry

Edited 24 January , 2020 by The Inspector

[jonbem]

Field Ambulance info from Long Long Trail (tab link top of page)

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/the-evacuation-chain-for-wounded-and-sick-soldiers/field-ambulances-in-the-first-world-war/#

[jonbem]

15 minutes ago, jonbem said:

Trench Name Nearest Place Map Sheet Number Map Squares Lowland Trench Villers-Guislain 57cSE4 W 11 b, 12 c

MAP LINK

 

[PRC]

Soldiers Died in the Great War records him as Walter Sumners and also has him as Died of Wounds. He is shown as born Bungay and enlisted Lowestoft - place of residence is blank.

(Lives of the First World War has him down as born Ormskirk, Lancashire).

 

There are no likely Walter Sumners on the Census records and no likely match for a Walter Sumners in the birth records of England & Wales between 1877 and 1900.

 

There is no likely Walter Sumner born in Suffolk during the 1880's, so unless he was born under another name and later took the surname of Sumner, (mother married \ remarried) or there is an error in the published \ transcribed records or he served under an assumed name then that leads you back to the Ormskirk man.

 

There is no record of a Walter Sumner of the right age on the 1891, 1901 & 1911 Censuses of England & Wales in connection with Suffolk, (or Norfolk).

 

On the 1891 Census the 6 year old Walter Sumner, born Ormskirk, was recorded at a dwelling at Everingham Park, Everingham, Pocklington, Yorkshire. Father John, (42, born Ormskirk), was a Gamekeeper. Mother Jane, (33) was also born Ormskirk, Lancashire. Walter has four siblings, the youngest aged 1. After that the Sumners' seem to drop off the census records.

 

Taking a step back, the birth of Walter Sumner, mothers' maiden name Barton, was recorded in the Ormskirk District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1885. However I could not track down a marriage of a his parents, John Sumner to a Jane Barton. There are births registered in the Pocklington District of children with the surname Sumner, mothers' maiden name Barton in 1892 & 1893 and then it stops and the only other children registered in England & Wales with that combination of surnames can be traced via the census to other parents. Of course prior to August 1911 not all the mothers' maiden names have been transcribed, but for now there is no indication from the birth records of where the family moved to.

 

The marriage of Walter Sumner to either a Maud J Gales or Maud J Galer - the entries appear next to each other in the General Registrars Office register of marriages in England and Wales for the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1912 and give the same volume and page reference for the Wangford District of Suffolk  -  so one is almost certainly an error. Wangford District would have covered Bungay, Beccles and Shipmeadow, among other places.

 

There do not appear to be any children registered in England & Wales with the surname Sumner, mothers' maiden name Gales that could be children of Walter and Maud, but there are just two children registered between 1911-1983 with the surname Sumner, mothers' maiden name Galer, and those two could very well be children of Walter & Maud.

Beatrice M. Sumner, mothers maiden name Galer, registered in the Wangford District in Q2 1913.

Malcolm J Sumner, mothers maiden name Galer, registered in the Wangford District in Q3 1915

 

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 21 year old Maud Jane Galer, born Loddon, Norfolk, a Farmers' daughter carrying out dairy work, was living with her parents at Church Farm, Shipmeadow.

 

Now I have to introduce an element of caution here. Though Maud was living at Church Farm on the 1911 Census, there is no proof as yet that she and Walter ever lived together there. The address for her shown on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website stems from correspondence that took place in the mid-1920's when the CWGC's predecessor, the Imperial War Graves Commission was looking to put in place the new agreed headstone designs and was offering relatives the chance to add some brief additional words, or was commissioning the new War Memorials and were keeping relatives informed of the plans to perpetually commemorate the names of their loved ones. As a widow on a pension it is not uncommon to have to move back in with parents - indeed with a husband away fighting she may have had to do it while he was still alive.

 

If he and Maud set up a separate household post their marriage in 1912 then as the head of a household Walter would have been entitled to vote in parliamentary, county council and civil parish elections from 1913 onwards as he already met the condition of being over 24. It might be worth contacting the public libraries in Beccles or Bungay to see how you might get access to the electoral registers for Shipmeadow for 1913-15, (preparation for the editions of 1916 & 1917 were suspended nationally). If they remained living with Mauds' parents then they didn't have a separate household and won't appear. It's a bit more nuanced than than that - Walter may not have registered to vote, they may have resided in a different electoral ward, but I would suggest that as the first step. There will also be a 1918 Absent Voters List, but if Maud had moved back in with her parents finding his name registered at Church Farm won't really tell you anything.

 

Hope that helps, (and makes sense),

 

Peter

 

 

[The Inspector]

Hi All

The Lancashire C of E Births & Baptisms 1813-1911 show Walter Sumner b.12.12.1884 baptised 18th Jan, 1885 parents John and Jane, John's occ..farmer.  living at "Kirkdale", SHOULD READ "Birkdale". On 10th May 1879 John Sumner married Jane Barton ( 1855-1909) at St.Cuthbert's church, Halsall, Lancashire. John's father..Richard, Jane's Robert.

Maud Jane Galer was born 27.11.1889, Loddon, Norfolk d.4.3.1971, Lowestoft,Suffolk. Parents Frank Charles Galer and Eliza Alice Smith. Walter and Maud had two children :-

Beatrice  Maud Sumner was born 17.5.1913 ( d.2009) Ilketshall St.Andrew, Suffolk. married Norman Mansley. Maud's Birth Cert. No 4a, 2205 Reg'd Wangford, should show her parent's address.

Malcolm John Sumner was born1.7.1915 (d.1990) Wangford, Suffolk (4a, 1916) married Gertrude Maud Roper.

1911 census Walter is living with his father, a widower and two siblings at "Near Chapel, Ilk St.Andrews, Bungay.". Single, Butcher Farmer, b. Birkdale, Lancashire (Ormskirk 8.1 miles away) The census shows there were 10 children of the marriage, 7 alive, 3 dec'd. Details crossed through.

 

1901 Sumner's living in Waterscout,  Halifax, West.Yorks. Walter NOT present.

Probate for Walter, 22nd July 1936 !! gives his address as Chapel Farm.

Regards Barry

Edited 27 January , 2020 by The Inspector

[The Inspector]

Hi All

The 1911 census shows Maud Jane ELEN (Ancestry!)  with her family. Should read GALER

On 25/01/2020 at 00:09, PRC said:

The marriage of Walter Sumner to either a Maud J Gales or Maud J Galer - the entries appear next to each other in the General Registrars Office register of marriages in England and Wales for the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1912 and give the same volume and page reference for the Wangford District of Suffolk  -  so one is almost certainly an error. Wangford District would have covered Bungay, Beccles and Shipmeadow, among other places.

 

 1891 census has her recorded as Maude Jane GALES. (Her brother Robert Harry Galer was 159854 R.E.. Record on Ancestry, address The Post Office, Shipmeadow buried.30.12.1979, St.Bartholomews. Shipmeadow)

Can't find Walter in 1901. Any thoughts as to whether or not he had enlisted and was in S.Africa. There are 6 soldiers named W.Sumner on the records?

Regards Barry

Edited 27 January , 2020 by The Inspector

[PRC]

On 25/01/2020 at 23:26, The Inspector said:

Probate for Walter, 22nd July 1936 !! gives his address as Chapel Farm.

 

On 25/01/2020 at 23:26, The Inspector said:

1911 census Walter is living with his father, a widower and two siblings at "Near Chapel, Ilk St.Andrews, Bungay.".

 

Just to confirm that the probate address given for Walter is Chapel Farm, St Andrews, Bungay - that would be Ilketshall St Andrews.

 

Image of the relevant entry in the 1936 Probate Calendar courtesy of the Government Probate Service.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Sumner&yearOfDeath=1936&page=2#calendar

 

Cheers,

Peter

[The Inspector]

Hi Peter and all,

Can you find Walter in 1901?

Regards Barry

3 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Can't find Walter in 1901. Any thoughts as to whether or not he had enlisted and was in S.Africa. There are 6 soldiers named W.Sumner on the records

 

[Coldstreamer]

his medal card shows he was entitled to war and victory medal

note surname has an "s" added

[PRC]

On 25/01/2020 at 23:26, The Inspector said:

The Lancashire C of E Births & Baptisms 1813-1911 show Walter Sumner b.12.12.1884

 

9 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Can't find Walter in 1901. Any thoughts as to whether or not he had enlisted and was in S.Africa. There are 6 soldiers named W.Sumner on the records?

As he had only been 16 in the December before the census was taken, while it's possible he could have enlisted and even have been serving overseas - or at least on his way to serve overseas depending on how long his basic training lasted - it seems a low probability.

 

Just in case I did check out the Anglo-Boer website and actually found seven matches for a W. Sumner that they are aware of, and that's only a partial record with potentially a couple of duplicates. Note - I couldn't spot an obvious subsequent Great War MiC for any of them.

 

Private 4397 W Sumner 10th (The Prince of Wales Own Royal Hussars).

               Army Service Numbers site has that number issued between 9th January 1900 (4347) and 16th January 1901, (4949).

               http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2014/02/10th-prince-of-waless-own-royal-hussars.html

Private 3388 W Sumner Leicestershire Regiment

                Army Service Numbers site has that number issued between 1st February 1892 (3349) and 25th January 1893 (3685).  

               http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/leicestershire-regiment-1st-2nd.html         

Private 5914 W Sumner 2nd Volunteer Active Service Company Loyal North Lancashire Regiment.

             There are surviving service papers for Private 5914 William Sumner who was born Liverpool.

Private 6269 W Sumner 1st Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment.

(There is also an appearance on the Mediterranean Medal Roll for a W Sumner 3rd Battalion, Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, who was then transferred to a Provisional Company 4th August 1902, also MID 4th September 1901).

               Army Service Numbers site has that number issued between 6th June 1899 (6085) and 15th June 1900 (6316).

               http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/loyal-north-lancashire-regiment-1st-2nd.html

Sapper 1804 W Sumner 10th Railway Company, Royal Engineers.

               There are surviving service papers for Sapper 1804 William Summer was born Wharton, Cheshire and was 19 years and 7 months when he enlisted on the 25th April 1898.

 

W. Sumner 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment.

W. Sumner 1st Battalion Gordon Highlanders, but also a W. E. Sumner that might be the same individual.

 

There are some surviving records for 2210 Scots Guards William Sumner, who served in South Africa.

 

On 25/01/2020 at 23:26, The Inspector said:

1911 census Walter is living with his father, a widower and two siblings at "Near Chapel, Ilk St.Andrews, Bungay.". Single, Butcher Farmer, b. Birkdale, Lancashire (Ormskirk 8.1 miles away) The census shows there were 10 children of the marriage, 7 alive, 3 dec'd. Details crossed through.

 BTW - kudos to you for finding the family. My usual source had conveniently transcribed him as "Walton Sumner"

 

You note the family living near Halifax on the 1901 Census. It may be a complete co-incidence but on the 1901 Census there is also a 17 year old Walter SUMMERS, born Halifax, who was recorded as a boarder at 10 Webster Street, Halifax. He was working as an Iron Turner Mechanic - the census enumerator has coded the occupation as "Fitter". I've then tried looking on the Censuses for a Walter born Halifax +/-2 years of 1884 with the surnames Summers \ Summer \ Sumner & Sumners and found no other matches.  When the individual recorded is based on information that came from a landlord or an employer I tend to treat it with even more caution than normal. Also as the extra "S" keeps slipping in there and this is based on the census taker transcribing his own notes on to the census schedule, I don't think the possibility can be ruled out entirely.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[The Inspector]

Hi Peter

Thanks for the above, Walter SUMMERS is on Ancestry as SIMMONS !!! No wonder it is difficult to find people....looking...checked out the house head's wife, Ann E Green, was Annie Eliza Halliday...so no connection to Sumner family 

Regards Barry

Edited 28 January , 2020 by The Inspector

[PRC]

1 hour ago, The Inspector said:

Walter SUMMERS is on Ancestry as SIMMONS !!! No wonder it is difficult to find people....looking...checked out the house head's wife, Annie E Green, was Annie Eliza Halliday...so no connection to Sumner family 

 Whoever Walter SUMMERS is I suspect he was staying in the household on a purely commercial basis - and other than an absense of a likely candidate in the birth and 1891/1911 census records it is going to be virtually impossible to prove this was Walter SUMNER.

 

Electoral records for the ward of Ilketshall St Andrew should show roughly when the father moved to take up Chapel Farm, and from that there may then be references in the local press that may give an indication as to why they upped sticks and moved down to Suffolk. It will also show whether he was a tenant farmer or held freehold.

 

I'll chuck one more possibility in there. On the 1891 Census the father of Walter, John, was recorded as a Gamekeeper at Everingham Park, Everingham, Yorkshire. One of my thoughts had been that if that owner of Everingham Park could be identified, it might that they owned land as well in the Bungay area. Or if the Park was tenanted, did the tenant move to the Suffolk area subsequently, taking staff with him. The reality is either totally co-incidental or rather convoluted.

 

Everingham Park had been owned by the Constable family since the early 1600's, and by the time that John Sumner was a Gamekeeper on the estate, the current head of the family was Marmaduke Constable-Maxwell, the 11th Lord Herries of Terregles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmaduke_Constable-Maxwell,_11th_Lord_Herries_of_Terregles

Marmaduke had two daughters, the eldest of which, Gwendoline, became the second wife of the 15th Duke of Norfolk. Although he owned large swathes of land, little of it as far as I can gather was in East Anglia. The Duke of Norfolk also had a hereditary role as the head of the Roman Catholic lay community in the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Fitzalan-Howard,_15th_Duke_of_Norfolk

Meanwhile the 1912 Kelly's Directory of Suffolk tells me that the chief landowner in the civil parish of Ilketshall St Andrew, was T. de la Garde Grissell, of Redisham Hall.

http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/223016

Other sources tell me that prior to 1907 it had been Hartwell de la Garde Russell. Hartwell became interested in the High Church movement while a student at Oxford and then went on to argue in public life for the reconciliation of the Protestant and Roman-Catholic forms of worship and the rehabilitation of Roman Catholics into British public life - they were barred from high office and many professions.In 1865 he converted to Roman Catholicism, and subsequently moved to Rome and served as a Papal Chamberlain. He frequently returned to the UK, funded many public works and spent much of his time tracking down relics of the saints.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartwell_de_la_Garde_Grissell

Hartwell would definately have been known to the Duke of Norfolk. His son Thomas also held high office, and one of his grandsons, 2nd Lieutenant Francis Grissell, 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards, would be killed in action on the 15th September 1916.

http://www.greatwarbritishofficers.com/index_htm_files/GRISSELL_F_Research.pdf

 

Bungay was a bit of a hotbed of Roman Catholicism - the church of St Edmund, built at the turn of the 20th Century, is one of my absolute favourites for the sheer over the top ornamentation and eye dazzling brass.

http://www.suffolkchurches.co.uk/bungayse.htm

 

That's probably as far as I can take it and still retain a Great War link

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[The Inspector]

Hi Peter and all,

It looks as though we can't find anymore, unless the OP knows anything else!

Regards Barry

[ChurchFarm]

Thank you all so much.

 

For some reason I didn't receive any notifications regarding your posts.

 

Fascinating detail, and is so appreciated.

 

Thank you