TFNS entitled to any medals?

[stuannmc]

Hi,

My Great Aunt, Hilda Musgrave, was a 'Staff nurse' and served in the T.F.N. S. She joined the TFNS September 28,  1914 and entered the 'Theatre of War' on 24 July 1915 on board H.M.H.S. Mauretania .

She resigned February 29 1916 (due to marriage). She died 1917.

 

I would like to know if she would have been entitled to any of the WW1 medals. I have copies of her service records and medal card and there is nothing recorded . 

 

 

Many thanks,

 

Ann

 

Ps. I think she was only assigned to the ship and never set foot on land during her service. 

hilda musgrave ww1 nurse records.pdf

hilda musgrave ww1 nurse records.pdf

Edited 23 January , 2020 by stuannmc
more information

[alf mcm]

The medal roll for British War and Victory Medals for Staff Nurse H.P. Musgrave is here;- https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41629_636897_11271-00125?pid=5985975&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DbmY36074%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26gsfn%3DH%26gsln%3DMUSGRAVE%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_x%3D1%26cp%3D11%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D9y4%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D20%26h%3D5985975%26recoff%3D%26fsk%3DMDsxOTsyMA-61--61-%26bsk%3D%26pgoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D21%26queryId%3D6f6ab15c454f47b36978bfc0e53bebe5&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bmY36074&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

Edited 23 January , 2020 by alf mcm

[stuannmc]

Thankyou for your response. The medal roll you sent was for Hannah P Musgrave.... wrong lady.

Thanks anyway.   

[Coldstreamer]

If the ship never left the UK then she Id say she  wouldnt be entitled to a medals (Army regs. if they fall under those)  - if the ship was going say to and fro from France then seems this doesnt count as there is no ref to the medal rolls

 

seems unfair if thats the case as women in the Queen Alexandra's Royal Naval Nursing Service didnt have to serve overseas but do 28 days service

 

just my 2pence worth

[stuannmc]

46 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

If the ship never left the UK then she Id say she  wouldnt be entitled to a medals (Army regs. if they fall under those)  - if the ship was going say to and fro from France then seems this doesnt count as there is no ref to the medal rolls

 

seems unfair if thats the case as women in the Queen Alexandra's Royal Naval Nursing Service didnt have to serve overseas but do 28 days service

 

just my 2pence worth

Hi,  Thanks for your reply. The ship she was on (Mauretania) transported the wounded from Gallipoli. 

[royalredcross]

The 28 days service rule did not apply to QARNNS or WRNS.  being women rather than men, they had to serve overseas to get a medal. 

[DavidOwen]

It is interesting that any Merchant Sailors making the same journeys would have received the BWM And Merchant Marine medals (had they claimed them). 

[Coldstreamer]

47 minutes ago, royalredcross said:

The 28 days service rule did not apply to QARNNS or WRNS.  being women rather than men, they had to serve overseas to get a medal. 

 

I looked on google.....

[stuannmc]

Thanks for your reply. 

So....because she did not set foot on land during her time on the Mauretania, then she did not qualify for any service medals?....seems unfair, she would have been in the thick of things at Gallipoli 

[seaJane]

What puzzles me is, why is there a medal card if no medals were to be awarded?

 

 

Edited 25 January , 2020 by seaJane

[stuannmc]

I agree!

[tullybrone]

17 hours ago, seaJane said:

What puzzles me is, why is there a medal card if no medals were to be awarded?

 

 

Hi,

 

I’ve seen a similar MIC created for a soldier when an application was made several years post war and no entitlement was confirmed. My assumption was that the “blank” MIC was created so a record existed of the enquiry having been made in the pre computerised records system era.

 

Steve

Edited 25 January , 2020 by tullybrone

[seaJane]

That would make sense 

[royalredcross]

If she served on a Hospital Ship at Gallipoli, she was clearly entitled to the 1914-15 Star trio.  The absence of any medal roll notations on her card would seem to indicate that she never applied for her medals. 

[stuannmc]

Thanks for your reply.

Sadly she died quite traumatically in 1917 and it would appear that the family never thought to apply for them.  Is there any way that I may apply for the medals on behalf of my  family? 

 

[tullybrone]

Hi,

 

If you have documentary evidence of her eligibility you could apply to MOD Medal Office for her medals  - have a read of this topic.

 

Good Luck

 

Steve

 

PS The example I quoted above was an MIC from Ancestry with relevant annotation on the rear. Your relative didn’t appear to have Ancestry MIC so you are in the dark as to whether a post war family application was declined with explanation on the rear of the NA MIC. 

 

 

Edited 25 January , 2020 by tullybrone

[Keith_history_buff]

  

15 hours ago, seaJane said:

What puzzles me is, why is there a medal card if no medals were to be awarded?

 

  

12 hours ago, tullybrone said:

Hi,

 

I’ve seen a similar MIC created for a soldier when an application was made several years post war and no entitlement was confirmed. My assumption was that the “blank” MIC was created so a record existed in the pre computerised records system era of the enquiry having been made.

 

Steve

The index cards were a living, breathing filing system. Whilst the majority of cards in the WO 372/1 to WO 372/22 range do have corresponding entries in the campaign medal rolls and the Silver War Badge roll, some cards document the rejection of a request. These are pretty colourful. There are also interwar requests for replacement Boer War campaign medals that are documented by MICs, too.

George Thomas Manly enlisted in the Royal Marine Artillery in 1890, and served alongside Beatty in the Sudan. From 1903 onwards, he was stationed in British Guiana, and was the Chief Instructor of local forces. He left the RMA in 1910, but was to continue this Chief Instructor role until 1924. He seems to have been employed under War Office rules. Given that he had not left British territory 'for service overseas', his medal request was rejected. 

 

The Admiralty had six categories of personnel eligible for the BWM. The fifth category is 'Canteen staff serving in a ship of war at sea'. The sixth category is non-nursing members of medical units. Categories 1 to 4 are reproduced in full, on the following site
https://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/british_war_medal_1914_1918_1920.htm

Of particular interest, category (d)

Quote

Award Criteria

Royal Navy.
     Awarded to those of the under mentioned classes who performed twenty-eight days' mobilized service, or lost their lives in active operations before completing that period, between 5th August 1914 and 11th November 1918, both dates inclusive...

(d) Members of Queen Alexandra's Royal Naval Nursing Service and Royal Naval Nursing Service Reserve, and recognised official nursing organisations, who served in a hospital ship at sea

 

[Keith_history_buff]

These six categories are also mentioned on page 505 of British Battles & Medals, seventh edition.

[MerchantOldSalt]

The Mauretania was not a Naval Hospital Ship, she was employed mainly as a Troopship and only briefly as a Hospital Ship for the Army, I believe between 22 Oct 1915 and 1 Mar 1916.  If that is he case, and the TFNS being an Army nursing service, would not the nurse's War Medal award come under army conditions? That is:

(c) All who served on staffs of Military hospitals and all members of recognized organisations who actually handled sick and wounded. 

As this lady clearly qualified under that condition, then as previously pointed out she did not live long enough to either see the medals approved in 1919 or to apply for her medals. 

Tony