Army cap badge

[Paddy Jackson]

Hi can anybody please identify this cap badge/regiment of this person? Could it be anything to do with ADRIC or something similar for men/officers post to Ireland in 1919/20 after WW1. Also any ideas what the ribbons represent in colour photo of the same (scroll down)?

 

[Andrew Upton]

He is a Staff Officer, wearing the ribbons of the 1914 or 1914/15 Star and the British War Medal:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 January , 2020 by Andrew Upton

[KGB]

The 1914 Star (Mons Star) has a rosette, so 1914/15 it is then. 

[Paddy Jackson]

Thanks that makes sense. Photos was probably taken about 1919. So what does 'staff officer' mean and any ideas about the hat badge? 

15 minutes ago, KGB said:

The 1914 Star (Mons Star) has a rosette, so 1914/15 it is then. 

 

[PhilB]

The 14 star does not necessarily have a rosette. And where is the VM ribbon? Could there be a time gap between the award of the BWM and the VM?

[Knotty]

45 minutes ago, KGB said:

The 1914 Star (Mons Star) has a rosette, so 1914/15 it is then. 

I don’t think you can be so specific with your assumption KGB.

The rosette was only given to the recipient if they had received/applied for the clasp for being under fire or within range of the enemies guns, in 1914,the rosette was to indicate this when just wearing the ribbon.

You could still receive a 1914 Star without clasp/rosette, the ratio was in the order of 5 with to 7 without.

 

sorry just seen philb post

Edited 20 January , 2020 by Knotty

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Paddy Jackson said:

Thanks that makes sense. Photos was probably taken about 1919. So what does 'staff officer' mean and any ideas about the hat badge? 

 

Paddy, ‘staff officer’ refers to those officers not serving at regimental duty, but instead working in a formation headquarters (A numbered brigade, division, corps, or army), where they would coordinate and administer the activities of the units, or junior formations under their command.  

All officers above the rank of Lieutenant Colonel were automatically either, staff officers, or generals, and these ranks carried out the higher level tasks.  The other type of staff officers were those of the ranks Lieutenant Colonel and below, who were temporarily detached from regimental duty to carry out the more junior staff jobs, usually working as assistants to the more senior staff.
 

The ‘staff’ were divided into branches and levels.  Broadly speaking the branches were General Staff (operations), Adjutant General (personnel and discipline), and Quarter Master General (service support - nowadays called logistics).  
 

The levels were: 3 (subalterns and captains), 2 (majors), and 1 (lieutenant colonels and colonels).  Ergo a GSO1 was a colonel working on operations, and so on and so forth.  During WW1 all staff officers wore the badge that you are querying, as well as coloured ‘gorgets’ (colloquially ‘tabs’).
 

In WW2 things changed and only colonels and generals wore the special badges and gorgets and the more junior levels continued to wear their regimental insignia despite working in an HQ.

Edited 20 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Knotty]

Any name forthcoming for the officer depicted ?

Edited 20 January , 2020 by Knotty

[Andrew Upton]

22 hours ago, KGB said:

The 1914 Star (Mons Star) has a rosette, so 1914/15 it is then. 

 

22 hours ago, Paddy Jackson said:

Thanks that makes sense. Photos was probably taken about 1919. So what does 'staff officer' mean and any ideas about the hat badge? 

 

 

21 hours ago, PhilB said:

The 14 star does not necessarily have a rosette. And where is the VM ribbon? Could there be a time gap between the award of the BWM and the VM?

 

KGB - as stated above the 1914 Star does not necessarily have the rosette. The rosette denotes entitlement to the August/November 1914 clasp (which not everyone got), and even this was not created until after the approval of the 1914/15 Star which used the same ribbon (and thus partly introduced as a further attempt to distinguish one from the other).

 

Phil - campaign medal approval was very much piecemeal fashion from late 1917 onwards. The VM was the last to be approved, and even then actual issue of ribband to show entitlement seems to have lagged well behind the rest (probably in no small part due to arguments what form it should take). So quite common in 1918/19 to see photos of people who would eventually be entitled to trios/pairs of medals wearing only part sets of the ribbands.

 

Edited 21 January , 2020 by Andrew Upton

[PhilB]

[Gardenerbill]

Is the cap badge 1st Royal Dragoons?

[PhilB]

It’s not a regimental badge, Bill, it’s the staff officers’ badge!

[Gardenerbill]

19 minutes ago, PhilB said:

It’s not a regimental badge, Bill, it’s the staff officers’ badge!

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification Phil.

[KGB]

OK, my Great Uncle had the rosette, not everyone did (though his cousins had it).