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Remembered Today:

Help with wounded records


Ralphy101

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Hi everyone 

 

i wondered if someone with more knowledge and experience can help.

 

I am researching my grandfather John Maclennan of the Seaforth Highlanders - no. 16478

 

I found a Labour Corps Roll of individuals stating his labour corps no. as - 585289

 

 After a bit of reading i concluded that he must of been wounded so that he was transferred to the Labour Corps.

 

I found an entry on a military website on 21/08/1917 stating that he was entitled to wear "wounded stripe" - this is obviously when he transferred to Labour corps.

 

Would anybody know - as to what level of information i can find and where on his injuries? or indeed find out where the Seaforth highlanders were during August 1917. I cant be sure of the battalion he was in but he did come from Forres, Scotland if that helps.

 

Kind Regards

 

Adam

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Quote

I found an entry on a military website on 21/08/1917 stating that he was entitled to wear "wounded stripe" - this is obviously when he transferred to Labour corps.

Don't assume that is when he was transferred -that date is most likely when he appeared in a casualty list, it may be a significant time difference from when he was transferred.

 

Craig

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A starter for you from Forces War Records

First Name:
J
Surname:
McLellan
Index Number of Admission:
33,491
Information:
Entrained Remy. Detrained Le Treport.
Rank:
Private
Service Number:
16478
Ailment:
Gassed
Date of Admission for Original Ailment:
21/07/1917
Date Discharged Back to Duty:
22/07/1917

 

...and welcome

 

George

Edited by George Rayner
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36 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

A starter for you from Forces War Records

First Name:
J
Surname:
McLellan
Index Number of Admission:
33,491
Information:
Entrained Remy. Detrained Le Treport.
Rank:
Private
Service Number:
16478
Ailment:
Gassed
Date of Admission for Original Ailment:
21/07/1917
Date Discharged Back to Duty:
22/07/1917

 

...and welcome

 

George


thanks so much George where did you find this ?

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It's on both Forces War Records and Find My Past

I'll send URL if needed

George

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1 minute ago, George Rayner said:

It's on both Forces War Records and Find My Past

I'll send URL if needed

George


Yes please ! Although I am member of ancestry not find my past.

 

am I right in thinking he was sent on a train in remy to be picked up at Le Tréport - after the gassing event ? 
 

would Remy therefore hold a clue as to where he was gassed ? 

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That seems to be correct...and Remy would be close to the site of the gassing I presume

 

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=S2%2FGBM%2FMH106%2FMH106-1987%2F0011&parentid=GBM%2FMH106%2FP2%2F687933

You will need a URL to see this

 

George

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He's noted in Aberdeen Press and Journal casualty list of 23/8/17 as being wounded  - this time difference would fit in with him being gassed previous month. Also give his home town or place of enlistment as Strathpeffer.

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5 minutes ago, david murdoch said:

He's noted in Aberdeen Press and Journal casualty list of 23/8/17 as being wounded  - this time difference would fit in with him being gassed previous month. Also give his home town or place of enlistment as Strathpeffer.


 

thanks David. I am beginning to think I may not have the correct gentleman as I cannot find any reference to him or his parents living in Strathpeffer! 

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I've sent you a message Ralphy

 

George

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Ralphy

Welcome

The info above about Remy and Le Treport is taken from a hospital admissions book, in this case MH 106/1987 which is the book for 31 Ambulance Train from 21/07/1917 to 23/07/1917. He would probably have been moved down the line from a Casualty Clearing Station to a hospital or Convalescence Camp. The main piece of info in the book is that it shows his Unit as 8 Seaforths. The War Diary is available on Ancestry (WO 95/1940/1-7) and the Unit was shelled including gas during a relief on 20 and 21/07/1917. There is no mention of casualties.

8 Seaforths were part of 44 Infantry Brigade of 15 Division. The WD of 44 IB is at WO 95/1935/1-5. Please feel free to ask how to access them if you can not find them.

Brian

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3 hours ago, Ralphy101 said:


 

thanks David. I am beginning to think I may not have the correct gentleman as I cannot find any reference to him or his parents living in Strathpeffer! 

Well there were several John MacLennans in the Seaforths and a good few more John McLennans, and  due to recruiting area a number of these will be from the same general region. Do you have anything to go on to establish that 16478 was the one who was your  grandfather - eg medals? In the papers casualty lists a place name is usually in brackets and can be misleading - as it can indicate place of residence rather than home town  birth town. So he may just have been working in  Strathpeffer at the time he enlisted and/or enlisted there. Usualy it stems from the residence place given in the enlistment papers.  Any idea of parents names or date of birth - I can look for him on Scotlands People records (when the site comes back on line).

Looking at the previous posts he was not in hospital very long due to the gassing so probably not too serious but being hospitalised by gassing would count as a wound and qualify him for a wound stripe. 

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Hi Gents

 

first and foremost thank you so much for your help in all this. 

 

I have been speaking to a distant cousin via Ancestry - who Has John Maclennan down as 

 

Seaforth Highlanders Private 1436
Labour Corps Private

373249

 

Similar circumstances as the other potenial chap - Started in the Seaforth Highlanders - moved to Labour Corps.

 

However the numbers are different. 

 

I've looked at the Morayshire Roll of Honour and indeed it confirms that its him; it reads

 

Mclennan, John no. 373249 PTE 1/6 Seaforths born at West End Grantown 12th Aug 1894

Served in France 

Joined at Forres 5th August 1914 

Son of Roderick Mclennan and Jessie Mclennan 

 

So the other gentleman isnt him. 

 

I cant find any wounded records for John no. 373249 - considering he got transferred to the Labour Corps where would one start?

 

 

 

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Silver War Badge record for Labour Corps 373249 links to John McLennon enlisted 14/5/1913 and discharged due to sickness 13/5/1919. The same Labour Corps number on the medal roll has him as John Mc-Lennan previously 1436 Seaforth Highlanders. Then on  Labour Corps 14/15 Star roll has him as John McLennan with a date of entry to France 1/5/1915 (date of discharge matches SWB record). However this roll gives him as previously 265257 6th Seaforth Highlanders. The lower 1436 number and enlistment date indicates a pre war territorial. His date of entry matches 1/6th Battalion landing in France. The date 5th August 1914 is the date 1/6th were mobilised at the outbreak of hostilities and they went over to France at the start of May 1915. Being from Grantown likely places him in  'F' Company - Grantown-on-Spey (joining at Forres) – OC Captain Macdonald.

See here https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/community/4010/?page=2 you can see the low territorial numbers then six digit 265### later renumbers (issued in March 1917)

He may have been transferred to Labour corps if he had been ill and no longer fully fit - not seeing him on a casualty record under either Seaforth number.

Edited by david murdoch
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The WDs for 6 Seaforths are available on Ancestry. They were part of 152 Infantry Brigade 51 Division. Can be found by searching the Browse box in War Diaries under Seaforth Highlanders - 51 Div  and the Brigade WD under Various Infantry Brigades - 51 Div. A lot of reading for you.

Brian

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This is all fascinating stuff 

 

thank you so much.

 

why would there be a different no. On his labour corps record for his time in the seaforths- would this just be a clerical error ?

 

Also, would there be anywhere that would state what illness he suffered from ? 

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I see you have found the other threads relating to 6th Seaforths! Would be a good idea to go back and add tags to your thread "1/6th Seaforths" "Seaforth Highlanders". That way will flag up to those with a specific interest.

Regarding his numbers he was originally 1436 then renumbered 265257 in 6th Seaforths then renumbered again 373249 when transferred to Labour Corps.

The book should be available online or probably in one of the larger bookshops.

https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-spirit-of-the-troops-is-excellent/derek-bird/9780956022301

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Hi David 

 

thanks for the help.

 

John had two brothers 

 

william mclennan no.6188 5th battalion of the seaforths fell at Beaumont Hamel 14/11/1916

 

james mclennan no. S21370 2nd battalion of the seaforths fell at Arras 28/03/1918

 

my mind ponders- because there is no evidence of John being wounded - could it be he was pulled from the front line because of the deaths of his brothers ? Or am I romanticising something that never actually happened? 
 

 

  

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I don't think the records for wounded men are complete. There is certainly a gap in reporting from around April 1917 - Aug 1917.

Find My Past, The Genealogist and NLS all have various lists and use different software to search them, plus the originals can vary in quality which doesn't help in finding results. I don't think any of the online sites have a complete list for the entire war and each site's content may vary.

 

So, just because there is no evidence for him being wounded doesn't mean he wasn't.

 

Other possible explanations;

Transferred to Labour Corps following sickness, perhaps having numerous light wounds that didn't get reported?

TEW

 

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18 hours ago, Ralphy101 said:

my mind ponders- because there is no evidence of John being wounded - could it be he was pulled from the front line because of the deaths of his brothers ? Or am I romanticising something that never actually happened? 

Most trfs were as a result of men becoming physically unfit for front-line service eg age, sickness, wounds etc.

The service record of a Labour Corps man trf'd from the Infantry with a close number (373242 Morgan) was transferred from the infantry to labour corps in Sept 1917, due to trench fever and heart problems.

 

Charlie

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3 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Most trfs were as a result of men becoming physically unfit for front-line service eg age, sickness, wounds etc.

The service record of a Labour Corps man trf'd from the Infantry with a close number (373242 Morgan) was transferred from the infantry to labour corps in Sept 1917, due to trench fever and heart problems.

 

Charlie

I'd agree with this. I don't see any mention of him in the newspapers so not certain he was actually wounded. The fact that he was still with 1/6th to be renumbered in 1917 and then by his Labour corps number transferred later in 1917. He was discharged 13/5/1919 with Silver War Badge (No.B 280206) due to sickness. He also shows up in the 1918  absent voters roll as being in  Mid Bedfordshire (Parish of Meppershall) with the 557th H.S (Home Service) Employment  Company Labour Corps.  So back in the UK by then. These companies appear to generally have been formed from men from various battalions the same Regiments medically classed no longer fit for front line and/or overseas service. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/definitions-of-units/what-was-a-divisional-area-or-home-service-employment-company-of-the-labour-corps/

Not seeing a pension record or pension index card for him.

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