Where can I find RAF 20th Squadron Daily reports?

[Neil McBride]

Hi GWF - I just found and joined the Forum as part of research I have started on my Great Uncle John Gordon McBride (25) and his Pilot Frank Wayman Ely (21) who were KIA October 8th 1918. What started off as a mild interest has now become an addictive and rewarding endeavor.  They were flying a Bristol F.2B s/n E2420 out of Moislains and unfortunately met up with Jasta 24's Ace Friedrich Altemeier in his Fokker E.V. Sadly they were shot down over Brancourt and their bodies were not recovered. I am looking for advice on where I can get copies of the Squadron's diaries if that is possible? I have the Squadrons general War Diary from 1915 - 1920 however I am interested to see what happened from their first arrival with the squadron 23d September (FWE) and September 28th (JGM) until they were shot down 8th October. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Neil 

[Neil McBride]

HI GWF - I managed to get great advice from Dr Michael Seymour on the location of the war diaries I was looking for and he also put me in contact with Norman Roberson who kindly shared recommended reading materials and also his experiences with the 20th Squadron in the 1980's. The search continues and I would greatly appreciate any advice on where I may be able to buy copies of any photographs etc of the 20th Squadron in France August - November 1918 if available.  Thanks in advance for any advice. Best regards, Neil.  

[sadbrewer]

A book here you may find interesting.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/the-honest-truth-royal-flying-corps-20-squadron-paid-heavy-price-for-amazing-success-rate-in-great-war/

 

I think my son may have a copy...if you can give me a few days I'll have a look and see if there is anything that may be relevant between the dates.

 

If you join theaerodrome.com there are some real niche experts on there...I may be mistaken but I seem to think Robert Selwood posts on there.

Edited 7 February , 2020 by sadbrewer

[Neil McBride]

On 07/02/2020 at 03:57, sadbrewer said:

A book here you may find interesting.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/the-honest-truth-royal-flying-corps-20-squadron-paid-heavy-price-for-amazing-success-rate-in-great-war/

 

I think my son may have a copy...if you can give me a few days I'll have a look and see if there is anything that may be relevant between the dates.

 

If you join theaerodrome.com there are some real niche experts on there...I may be mistaken but I seem to think Robert Selwood posts on there.

Hi sadbrewer,

 

Thank you for the reply and for sharing the Sunday Post link. I will join theairodrome.com and see what else is out there. I have ordered Peter Hart’s Aces Falling and am working on getting a copy of Trevor Henshaw’s The Sky Their Battlefield. Thanks to other great contacts I have made in the last few weeks, Air 27/258/1 and Air 27/258 have been recommended as additional sources of information at KEW so I will also down load this today. Any additional information you find would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Neil

[quemerford]

 

Neil,

 

I have a strong suspicion that these 20 Sqn records don't exist; they don't always, sadly. And AIR 27/258 above is just the general container for files in that series, so doesn't exist as such. AIR 27/258/1 is a Summary of Events (nominally 01Aug15 to 30Jun27), but my experience of this type of file is that it will contain a VERY condensed precis of operations up to June 1927 and then a day-to-day account of June 1927 only.

 

If 20 Sqn daily reports did exist at TNA, they would be listed as individual files by month.

 

None of this is much of a surprise: try looking for RFC/RAF Training Squadron records!

[Neil McBride]

Hi qumerford,

 

Thank you for sharing this and for the advice on looking at the RFC/RAF training records as an alternative source of information.. Thanks to another post on the forum, I found airhistory.org.uk this morning and this has proved to be an excellent additional resource for a 'newbie'. It has helped make sense of terms like 'ASD"' etc and clarified the London gazette entries for John and Frank.

 

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and advice.

 

Best regards,

 

Neil       

[quemerford]

3 hours ago, Neil McBride said:

Hi qumerford,

 

Thank you for sharing this and for the advice on looking at the RFC/RAF training records as an alternative source of information.. Thanks to another post on the forum, I found airhistory.org.uk this morning and this has proved to be an excellent additional resource for a 'newbie'. It has helped make sense of terms like 'ASD"' etc and clarified the London gazette entries for John and Frank.

 

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and advice.

 

Best regards,

 

Neil       

 

Neil,

 

Apologies for the confusion: the reference to Training Squadrons was just to demonstrate how little survives: in the case of the Training Squadrons, pretty much nothing.

 

However you might try the RAF Museum; they hold many pilots' log books and you can obtain these on microfilm. They might just have copies of your Great Uncle's or of  Frank Wayman Ely's log book. Keele University did have a collection too but I can't locate a link at present.

[Testerchild2]

Neil,

Apologies for the very late reply, I have been heavily involved with other things. I am the author of Winged Sabres mentioned by sadbrewer and in case you already found out the laborious way I am sorry to tell you that the 20 Squadron Record Books, or war diaries, for 1918 do not exist except for a short period during the German Spring Offensive March/April 1918. They "went missing" when the Squadron was en-route to India by ship in 1919. I got the information that is included in the mainly from other verifiable sources, although the four thick volumes for 1917 survived. Your relative and Frank Ely are both mentioned in the book, but only regarding their deaths and brief biographies.  From the National Archives the higher echelon records may be of some use: 

5 Brigade Moves of Units 1918 Nov. - Dec.  Air 1/1025/204/5/1413  & 5 Brigade Movement of Unit instructions 1918 Nov. Air 1/1/1152/204/5/2400. 

I hope that helps a bit.

Bob