James Shaw 132703 MM 197th siege battery RGA

[loz]

I am hoping to find out more about my relative who was in the 197th siege battery RGA.  Do I have to go to Kew to read the war diaries, as there doesn't seem to be any access on line??

James Shaw 132703.  He won the gallantry medal (m.m). Does anyone have any other leads I could follow? Thanks

[DavidOwen]

Welcome to the forum

 

I have edited your post title to include James's details so hopefully it may get a wider response.

 

Good luck with your research

 

David

[loz]

great thanks

 

[petwes]

As far as I can see no diary exists for 197 SB for April 1917 (despite what was said in the older thread) which is when your man was awarded the MM. The battery was with 5 HAG during that period but that sheds no light either.

There are 3 record cards in the pension records available from Fold3 or via WFA membership. They note his date of death and the name and address of his widow which I guess you already know.

 

Peter

[loz]

Thanks Peter, so maybe a trip to Kew would be a waste of time then??

[Coldstreamer]

have you tried local papers ?

also the british medal forum has a great thread on MMs including many citation gleaned from all over the place- you might get lucky

you will be lucky to find a soldier mentioned by name in a war diary

[petwes]

Loz

I can't really answer your question about Kew.  Royal Garrison Artillery diaries for the Western Front are available on line from The National Archives for about £3.50.

Coldstreamer has given good advice about local papers, this is an area in which I have no experience but might be your best next step.

Maybe if you tell us what you do know... people on this forum can help with the blanks.

For example did you know he had a TFWM i.e. enlistment in Territorial Force pre September 1914 plus Imperial overseas obligation? His service number also provides a clue to where he enlisted. Do you have his marriage certificate? Was it 1912? Are there any clues there?

Peter

P.S. also look in the local papers for a death notice or obituary for Jan 1925.

Edited 15 January , 2020 by petwes

[George Rayner]

Have you seen the gazette entry?

Gazette Info:

Gazette Issue 30023. M.M. His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to award the Military Medal for bravery in the Field.

Gazette Date:

17/04/1917

Gazette Page:

3699

 

George

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

If there is no Siege Battery war diary, then the next thing to look for is the RGA Brigade (also called HAG) diary.

HAG diaries can be very hit or miss.

Some accurately record the arrival and departure of SBs, others less so.

Some accurately document each battery's location, others less so.

It's extremely unlikely that the Brigade/HAG diaries will name any individual OR, whereas arriving and departing officers are far more likely to be named.

Depending on which time period you are interested in, you would need to consult the appropriate diary.

 

For example, if you want to find the diaries for 5 Brigade- go to the National Achives Discovery page

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

 

In the Search box, enter          WO 95 Royal Garrison Artillery "5 Brigade"

You'll see that there are 3 diaries relevant to that brigade, which you can download for £3.50 each

 

You can repeat that for all the other brigades.

(Except 2 ANZAC, which are available (FREE - but incomplete) at the Australian War Museum site:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1338644

 

 

 

197 SB went out to the Western front on 3/11/1916

9/11/1916 Joined 5 HAG

11/11/1916   2ANZAC

19/11/1916  5HAG

13/5/1917   19HAG

11/6/1917    33HAG

14/6/1917    12HAG

17/7/1917    69HAG

25/7/1917    33HAG

23/9/1917     80HAG

26/9/1917-14/12/1917    33HAG

17/12/1917   To Italy. Joined 15HAG

No subsequent change.

 

[petwes]

Loz,

I think you posted the same questions a year ago under another login and received similar answers.

Unfortunately the 5 HAG diary doesn't solve the problem.

As Coldtreamer advised the local papers are your best bet. Instead of Kew looking at a trip to Wallasley. Archives might be more productive. 

Maybe the Wallasey News and the Wallesley  & Wirral Chronicle might contain the information you are after.

Peter

[BillyH]

1 hour ago, petwes said:

. . . . .  the local papers are your best bet. Instead of Kew looking at a trip to Wallasley. Archives might be more productive. 

Maybe the Wallasey News and the Wallesley  & Wirral Chronicle might contain the information you are after.

 

(the Wallasey version is correct by the way  )

Just for the record, there was nothing about him at all, in either of the Wallasey newspapers between 1914-1919.

 

BillyH.

[loz]

Thanks for looking in the papers Billy H.  Looks like the info I have is all that we're going to get.

B 1893.  D 1925 ( from TB always had a bad chest after the war after being gassed to an inch of his life while manning the guns)

Corporal.  Medals won - Territory Forces Medal (he was a TA in Wallasey before WW1) Gallantry Medal  1917 - don't know what for or where.

He was wounded in 1916 and was entitled to wear a 'wounded stripe' Does this just exempt him from duties for a while??

My cousins daughter is doing a school project on him, so just wanted to gleam as much about him as possible.  Thanks all. 

 

[BillyH]

This is the confirmation of the award of his Military Medal in the London Gazette in April 1917. As a general rule the L.G. announcement was usually about 2 months after the action.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30023/supplement/3699

 

BillyH.

 

[petwes]

11 hours ago, BillyH said:

 

(the Wallasey version is correct by the way  )

Just for the record, there was nothing about him at all, in either of the Wallasey newspapers between 1914-1919.

 

BillyH.

I think he died in early 1925. I wonder if there was an obit?

[BillyH]

1 minute ago, petwes said:

I think he died in early 1925. I wonder if there was an obit?

 

I'm afraid I don't have newspaper records after 1919.

 

BillyH.

[loz]

We have his death certificate