Shiny Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Hi All, I have been researching a relative called William Henry Fish, he was in the 5th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers from 1911 and carried on with them when war broke out reaching the rank of LSgt. In 1915 he signed the form saying he was happy to serve overseas and within a matter of weeks was transferred as a sapper into the 63rd (Northumbrian Division) Signal Company. The next document in his pension record is dated 25th of Feb 1916 and records his termination of engagement as a LCpl with good character. His attestation document from 1911 seems to say he signed on for 4 years but I find it really odd that they have an experienced NCO and then half way through the war he is allowed to leave. Is this something that happened a lot? His name is William Henry Fish and his service numbers were 1161 with the Northumberland Fusiliers and 2947 with the Engineers. Thanks for the help, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Quote His attestation document from 1911 seems to say he signed on for 4 years but I find it really odd that they have an experienced NCO and then half way through the war he is allowed to leave. Is this something that happened a lot? It is - pre MSA a man who was up for discharge could leave the army and come home when his time was up (after Aug 1915 - to account for the 1 year war-time service extension). I once looked in to the figures and I got something like 8,000 territorials alone who were up for discharge between Aug 1915 and the MSA 1916 stopping it. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 13 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Thanks very much Craig, I had no idea. Presumably they didn't get called up again as they had already served? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 2 minutes ago, Shiny said: Thanks very much Craig, I had no idea. Presumably they didn't get called up again as they had already served? Michael Under the original MSA 1916 they didn't but this was soon amended to make them liable for conscription (and to cancel the discharge for any not yet released as time served). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 13 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Thanks very much Craig, I've never heard about that before. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Frederick James, service numbers 69 and 200011, has a surviving service record. He was discharged from the Territorial Force, Time Expired, on 2 April 1917, having served for 4 + 4 + 1 years in total, aged 43 years and 4 months. With regard to some Time Expired men from regular and Special Reserve terms of service (12+1 and 6+1 respectively) where the service record survives, I have seen a few cases where the discharge papers state that upon medical examination, the soldier was no longer physically fit for war service, and a silver war badge has been duly claimed and issued. I have found the following thread to be of particular interest, with regard to terms of service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 13 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Thanks a lot Keith, I had wondered if he hadn't been fit to carry on but I couldn't see anything in his record to back that up and doesn't have an SWB. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 3 hours ago, Shiny said: ... Presumably they didn't get called up again as they had already served? Michael It happened to my own grandfather. Territorial Royal Field Artillery. Discharged in 1916 on medical grounds after serving in France. Then conscripted in 1917 for a second go. And discharged on medical grounds for a second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 13 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2020 I can understand the time served ones being called back up but didn't expect medical discharges to be called up again. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 8 hours ago, Shiny said: I can understand the time served ones being called back up but didn't expect medical discharges to be called up again. Michael Yep. They'd be reassessed and unless permanently barred from service on medical grounds the option of taking them back in to the army was open. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heid the Ba Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 I seem to recall reading here about officers who were cashiered for conduct unbecoming then being drafted back into the army as privates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 8 hours ago, Heid the Ba said: I seem to recall reading here about officers who were cashiered for conduct unbecoming then being drafted back into the army as privates. Yes, that could happen as they'd fall straight in to conscription (without something else to rule them out). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 13 January , 2020 Admin Share Posted 13 January , 2020 3 hours ago, Shiny said: I can understand the time served ones being called back up but didn't expect medical discharges to be called up again. Michael It was controversial, the authority was the Military Service (Review of Exceptions) Act , April 1917. The Army Council could call for medical examination those men who had previously been rejected on medical grounds either after voluntary offering themselves for enlistment or subject to the Military Service Act 1916; men who have left or been discharged from naval or military service in consequence of disablement or ill health and members of the TF who, in the opinion of the Army Council, were not suited for foreign service. As always there were exemptions from the Act for certain discharged men and those engaged in essential work. It was particularly aimed at men born between 1895 and 1898. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Robert Graves mentions this in 'Goodbye To All That', re his servant, Private Fahy, known as Tottie Fay. Pte Fahy had been recalled to the colours as a reservist and served with the 2nd RWF. Graves was assigned him as his servant and kept him when he went to the 1st RWF. Graves writes: 'A few weeks later his seven years contract as a reservist expired. When their 'buckshee sever' came to an end, reservists were sent home for a few days, but then 'deemed to have re-enlisted under the Military Service Act' and recalled to the battalion. Tottie made good use of his leave. His brother-in-law, the director of a munitions factory, took him in as a skilled metal-worker. He became a starred man - one whose work was so important to industry that he could not be spared for military service - so Tottie is, I hope, still alive.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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