Identify these officers?

[mpjbrennan]

The picture below shows my wife's great-grandfather taken with his company commanders during one of the Somme battles (supposedly) It's a long shot I know (I've searched through 49 copies of "I Was There"), but can anyone identify any of these officers? My wife's great-grandfather is the private standing second from the left. His unit was the 3rd battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers.

Patrick

[Blackblue]

This might throw a spanner in the works. The chap in the middle looks like he has an AIF (Rising Sun) collar.

Rgds

Tim

[PhilB]

Here`s another small spanner! 3 Northd Fus didn`t serve abroad! Sorry to be negative. Phil B

[HERITAGE PLUS]

The 3rd Battalion served in the UK as part of the Tyne Garrison.

However they did send drafts to other battalions serving overseas.

It is therefore possible that your relative was in the 3rd. originally and was then drafted overseas.

Dave

[PhilB]

The man sitting left appears to have General Service collar dogs and the man sitting right looks a bit old for an active service officer? Not a NF badge to be seen!It doesn`t have the look of a Nothd Fus group somehow? Phil B

[Stephen Nulty]

Patrick

Have you obtaibned his MIC? This will clearly show details of who he served with, and should start to answer some questions.

Steve

[Paul Reed]

The chap on the left sitting down looks like he has Labour Corps collar badges; at a push it could be Manchesters, but given his age Labour Corps seems more likely. I would agree the next officer to his left, has AIF badges. Can't make out the others; it's a very curious photo.

Some details of the Northumberland Fusiliers battalions which served overseas here:

http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/regiment011.htm

[Tim Godden]

It looks to me as though it is a make up of a few photos put together.

The two officers on the left look super-imposed and in the back ground there is a kitchen cupboard, a cabinet and a mirror.

Just a guess!

All the best,

Tim

[mpjbrennan]

Thanks for your contributions - the only info I can add is that the standing officer was said to have been killled minutes after the photo was taken. I agree the photo is strange - I wondered if it had been doubly exposed. I got the MIC of my wife's g-grandfather - he was in the Northumberland Fusiliers LAB C. - I guess this means Labour Corps. He was awarded the Victory and British medals, but the MIC gives no further information.

Patrick

[Tim Godden]

Could it be a memorial photograph? By which I mean that the Officer who was killed was superimposed. I have seen a few examples of this, most notably in Lyn MacDonald's 1915 book. This make explain the strange perspective and background haziness.

All the best,

Tim

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

The 3rd Battalion served in the UK as part of the Tyne Garrison.

However they did send drafts to other battalions serving overseas.

It is therefore possible that your relative was in the 3rd. originally and was then drafted overseas.

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to SDGW there was two 3rd NF battalions

3rd NF (Garrison Battalion)

3rd NF (Special Reserve)

But as stated both never served overseas

(none of the of the ordinary ranks died in action - they all died at home)

But the if you check the officers who died (42) for 3rd NF most of them died in action?

Strange?

[Muerrisch]

According to SDGW there was two 3rd NF battalions

3rd NF (Garrison Battalion)

3rd NF (Special Reserve)

But as stated both never served overseas

(none of the of the ordinary ranks died in action - they all died at home)

But the if you check the officers who died (42) for 3rd NF most of them died in action?

Strange?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In general, many officers belonging to 3rd [special Reserve] battalions, on being posted, in the normal course of events, to a line battalion and subsequently killed, retained their 3rd battalion attribution, a source of great grief to some families. This was especially so if they ended up in a Regular [and hence prestigious] battalion. Some famillies fought for years to get the 3 changed to a 1 or 2.

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

In general, many officers belonging to 3rd [special Reserve] battalions, on being posted, in the normal course of events, to a line battalion and subsequently killed, retained their 3rd battalion attribution, a source of great grief to some families. This was especially so if they ended up in a Regular [and hence prestigious] battalion.  Some famillies fought for years to get the 3 changed to a 1 or 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers LB

That explains it a bit..

So if the other ranks transferred they would take on the title of the new Regiment/Battalion

But not the case for officers? Was that the procedure?

Bit elitist don't you think of those 3rd Special Reserve battalions

Claiming to have some of their Officers kia

[Muerrisch]

3rd [sR] battalions were always intended as reinforcing drafts and not meant to be used as a fighting unit. They expanded to huge size [2500 men some of them] because they absorbed the sick and sorry, wounded, under-age, untrained regulars, plus war-time recruits.

And, yes, a soldier posted to a fighting battalion would go on its strength immediately.

[PhilB]

I`m slightly confused here by the use of "Special Reserve Battalions". James shows them simply as Reserve Bns, while the officers are shown in the Army List as on the Special Reserve. Phil B

[Muerrisch]

In the usual 'two regular battalion' regiments, the 3rd was always SR, officered by a small number of regulars, and the remainder SR officers [sR of Officers], a small staff of regular other ranks, and about 500 special reservists, with 6 months training and an annual commitment and a war commitment. The 3rd was often collocated with the depot in peace. In 'four regular battalion' regiments like the RF, the 5th was SR and the 6th Extra Reserve.

In war the SR battalion was augmented by all the regular men and boys not sent to the front, or returned, plus all the reservists of all types. The SR continued to recruit after Aug 1914. Battalions became so large that they were allocated double senior staff, including two RSM and two RQMS.

This all totally separate from the later Reserve battalions created from/for the New Armies.

[PhilB]

Yes, though James refers to them as Reserve Bns, the 1914 and 1915 Army Lists refer to them as Special Reserve Bns. Phil B

[Guest Jimmy Knacky]

I`m slightly confused here by the use of "Special Reserve Battalions".  James shows them simply as Reserve Bns, while the officers are shown in the Army List as on the Special Reserve.    Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, though James refers to them as Reserve Bns, the 1914 and 1915 Army Lists refer to them as Special Reserve Bns. Phil B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did I say that?

I was just referring to SDGW

On there under Northumberland Fusiliers it has

3rd Battalion (Special Reserve)

I'm no expert I'm Jimmy Knacky not Field Marshall Knacky

[PhilB]

Where did I say that?

Where did I say you said that?    Phil B