Shot down 27- Sept 1917 around Tikrit Mesopotania

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

 

Happy new year.

 

I was reading Ole Nikoljsen and pages 138/139 he mentions this account?

 

On the 27 Sept 1917, Lt Reiners came up during an attack on the Ottoman Airfield at Tikrit and shot down two of the British planes, both crews being taken prisoners?

 

I can find no confirmation of this or even a German officer named Reiners?

 

I known Ole's accounts in his book should be taken with a gain of salt, as his spellings of names are far from correct but do we have any details on this raid around Tikrit and the loss of two planes around that date?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[IPT]

63 squadron lost 2 RE8s on a reconnaissance mission near Tikrit on 25th September. Could be that?

 

According to "In the Clouds above Baghdad", the pilots and observers that were captured were Captain J.R Philpott MC, Lt M.G, Begg MC, Lt E.N, Baillon and Cpl Grant. 

 

If that may be the incident, there is more information in this thread;

 

 

[Guest]

Mate,

 

Thank you, the dates are close enough for Ole to be the right one?

 

Reiners    Sgt / Lt    Pilot Airforce 11th Company Tayyare Boluk 5-17 to 2nd Company Tayyare Boluk 8-17 

 

he is shown a Sgt with 11th Company and 2nd Company, but a later account also shows him as a Lt but no date? a number of Sgt pilots where given Probationary Officer rank late in the war?

 

in Halberstadt D5 (HK3) shot down two planes attacking his airfield near Tikrit 27-9-17

 

I have no first name for him and many other Germans on this Front.

 

This is one of a number of claims by German pilots during the fighting on this front, that I can't confirm from Tennant's Book.

 

Cheers and Happy New Year.

 

S.B

Edited 1 January , 2020 by stevebecker

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

I brought this back to see if the German Airman called Reiners could be identified by our German experts

Not much to go on sorry

Of cause I did find another man with the GNSG

Edited 14 December , 2023 by stevenbecker

[charlie2]

On 01/01/2020 at 01:49, Guest said:

number of Sgt pilots where given Probationary Officer rank late in the war?

There were no acting, temporary or otherwise commissions in the German army, only permanent commissions. There are two possibilities in the Militär Wochenblatt. Unfortunately without forenames. Both promoted to Leutnant der Reserve.

Vize-Wachtmeister Reiners from Ratibor commissioned into FAR42 on 03.01.1917

Vize-Feldwebel Reiners from Geldern commissioned into IR159 on 08.03.1918. 

There are others from 1915 but I guess that would be too early.

Charlie

 

[stevenbecker]

Charlie,

Yes its the problem with Germans serving with the Ottomans, where they are given a one rank up.

Ole shows him as Sgt, but other sources (Ottoman) show him as Lt

Sgt (in English) is often shown in German records as Vize-Feldwebel 

So did he gain his officer rank in the German Army or was it only an Ottoman rank?

Not the first time I've run into this in that theatre?

He is shown being ToS 2nd Air Company in Aug 1917 as a Sgt (VzFeldwebel), so if he gained his officer rank (in the German Army) it may be in 1918 some time?

How long he stayed in Mespot is unknown, as the last record of him is in Sept 1917?

Sorry about this

 

[charlie2]

No need to be sorry Steve 

Vize-Wachtmeister is a Sgt with mounted troops eg Cavalry, Horse Artillery. If he was bumped up a rank by the Ottomans he would only become a Feldwebel/Wachtmeister. As it has been translated from more than one language it begs the question is Lt the German or British rank.

Charlie