What action was the 146th Regt involved in 30 April 1918

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

 

I was doing some checking and found around 50+ casualties of the German 146th Regt shown as 30 April 1918.

 

Was then checked to see where these could be?

 

The Es Salt operation was starting but the 146th was not around there?

 

I could not put my finger on what the 1Bn 146th Regt was doing?

 

The casualties were from the 4th Company 1Bn and 2nd MG Company of the 146th Regt?

 

These men are those I record;

 

Adametz Joseph    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1889 at Kauthen ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Alfred Divferna    Sig/Gefr    Divisions-Fernsprech-Abteilung 1703 (telephon) Sig Co    1917-18    died 30-4-18 grave panel Jerusalem cause not stated? (not identified) 
Baumann Hermann    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1897 at Hitzdorf ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Burkhardt Johannes    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1896 at Rocka died 30-4-18 
Conrads Paul    Sgt    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1892 at Düsseldorf ) WIA 30-4-18
Dahlheim Eugen    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1892 at Essen a. d. Ruhr ) WIA 30-4-18
Demant Franz    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn  - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1884 at Danskehmen KIA 30-4-18)  grave panel Jerusalem
Ewert Fritz    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1896 at Reipen ) WIA 30-4-18
Fengel Alfred    Kranttr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1894 ) WIA 30-4-18
Fischer Hans    Lt deR    146th Regt - 1Bn - 1Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146 shown 1Bn - 4Co when killed     1917-18    (1884 at Magdeburg KIA 30-4-18) grave panel Jerusalem
Frantowski Otto    Unteroffizier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1893 at Gilgenburg ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Freiny Fritz    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1894 at Pierwoy )  WIA 30-4-18
Futterer Markus    Sgt    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1891 died 30-4-18) cause not stated? 
Gansbuhl Friedrich    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1883 ) WIA 30-4-18
Gramann Josef    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1897 at Bischwalde died 30-4-18) cause not stated? 
Greve-Bierfeld Ernst von    Lt    Heeresgruppen-Kommando Jildirim (Army Group Command Yildirim)    1917-18    (1897 at Berlin died 30-4-18) cause not stated? 
Großke Richard    Gefr    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1889 at Kleinaga ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Guraschka Hermann    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1884 ) WIA 30-4-18
Hoheisel Joseph    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1881 at Dürr Kamitz ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Klimmek Paul    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1895 at Sawaden ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Kochanek Michael     Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1894 at Lucka Ortelsburg ) WIA 30-4-18
Kochannek Ignatz    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1887 ) WIA 30-4-18
Kohn Franz    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1897 at Arnstein ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Kolorz Johann    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1893 at Bottrop ) WIA 30-4-18
Krafzig Johannes    Offz Stellv Feldwebel    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1881 at Lötzen ) reported MIA 30-4-18 possibly PoW 
Krajewski Albert     Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1894 at Arnau died 30-4-18) cause not stated? 
Kramer Josef    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1896 ) WIA 30-4-18
Krischolleck Friedrich    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1889 at Gramten ) WIA 30-4-18
Meßmann Erwin    Unteroffizier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1894 at Letzin ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Nagel Gottfried    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1890 died 30-4-18) cause not stated? 
Olesch Paul    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1895 at Langenau ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Penczerzinski Anton    Gefr    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1897 at Allenstein ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Perkuhn Ernst    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1889 at Rosenberg ) WIA 30-4-18
Peters Arnold    Sgt    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1889 at Brachelen ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Rethemeier Karl    Gefr    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1889 at Osnabrück ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Roski Bruno    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1897 at Blumberg )  WIA 30-4-18
Rutkowski Ludwig    Gefr    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1896 at Gr. Dankheim ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Sarstedt Otto    Lt deR    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Sastawny Johann    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1884 at Heinrichsdorf ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Schermutzki Hermann    Kranttr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1895 at Alt Ballupönen ) WIA 30-4-18
Schneider Philipp    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1890 ) WIA 30-4-18
Schumacher Max    Unteroffizier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1891 died 30-4-18) cause not stated? 
Siechel Wilhelm    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1895 at Tilsit ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Sliwinski Max    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1896 at Czersk died 30-4-18) cause not stated? 
Sperling August    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1881 at Rannau ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Springer Richard    Musketier    146th Regt - 2 MG Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1881 at Zöpel ) WIA (30-4-18) 
Streit Erwin    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1896 at Berlin ) WIA 30-4-18
Totzeck Michael    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1889 at Kohewen ) WIA (30-4-18)
Vanhöfen Eduard     Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1895 at Paschmackern ) WIA 30-4-18
Weps Heinrich    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1893 ) WIA 30-4-18
Wichmann Paul    Gefr    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1895 at Gr. Münsterberg ) reported MIA (30-4-18) possibly PoW 
Wunder Paul    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 4Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1892 at Kl. Trinkhaus ) WIA 30-4-18
 

Cheers

S.B

 

[Eran Tearosh]

Hi Steve,

 

Don't have details of this regiment, but take a look at this map - Second Trans-Jordan attack. The dates are right:

 

 

Eran

[Guest]

Eran,

 

Thank you, yes I see it shows the German 1Bn/146th Regt, what date is this map from?

 

1st Composite (Lütfü) Müretteb or Mürattep) Division

 

shown May 1918 Allied reports 1Bn/123rd Regt (200 men 4 Mgs) 1Bn/146th Regt (350 men 8 Mgs) 1Bn/148th Regt (600 men 18 Mgs) 2Bn&3Bn/152nd Regt (450 men 4 Mgs) 2Bn/159th Regt (75 men) Mule Mtd Bn (250 men 4 Mgs) + Camel Co (50 men)

 

But that is the Ottoman 1Bn/146th Regt not the German 146th Regt?

 

My ORbats from Allied sources shown the German 1Bn/146th around June/July 1918

 

1st Composite (Lütfü) Müretteb or Mürattep) Division

 

shown July 1918 Allied reports 2xBns/74th Regt (600 men 24 Mgs 100 cav) 2xBns/66th Regt (400 men 12 Mgs) 148th Regt (600 men 18 Mgs) 2xBns/152nd Regt (450 men 12 Mgs) Panderma Gar Bn (200 men) 1Bn/146th Regt (350 men 4 MGs) Attack/Storm Co German 1Bn/146th Regt (300 men 10 MGs) Mule Mtd Bn (250 men 6 MGS) + Camel Co (50 men) 2Sqn/29th Cav Regt (100 cav) 26th Div Cav (75 cav) & (66th Regt (16 Mgs) 152nd Regt (18 Mgs)

 

and by

 

shown Aug 1918 Allied reports 66th Regt (400 men 10 Mgs) 1Bn/146th Regt (German) (800 men 39 Mgs) 1Bn/146th Regt (350 men 4 Mgs) 2Bn&3Bn/152nd Regt (450 men 12 Mgs) Mule Mtd Bn (225 men 6 Mgs) Camel Co (50 men) + 148th Regt (600 men 18 MGs) 

 

My records show the only Germans in that area around April - May is most of the 703rd Bn?

 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 25 November , 2019 by stevebecker

[emrezmen]

It was definitely the Second Battle of Sheria/Second Transjordan Attack as Eran said. Part of 146th German Regt was at disposal of Ottoman 24th Div. An old Turkish military magazine (which I mentioned about on the forum before) called "Askerî Mecmua" has the following info that might be useful:

 

"24. P. Firkasi sağ cenah grubu" (24th Infantry Division right flank group)

See "146.A.1.T. Alman 1, 3. Bölük" (1st and 3rd Coys of 1st Bn, 146th German Regt)

 

"Şeria Nehri şarkına geçen kuvvetler" (Units moved to the east of Jordan River )

See "146.A.1.T. Alman 1. Bölük" (1st Coy of 1st Bn, 146th German Regt)

 

 

Source: Neşet, Büyük Harpte Suriye Cephesinde 48. Piyade Fırkası, 77 Sayılı Askerî Mecmua’nın Tarih Kısmı, İstanbul, Temmuz 1930

 

Edited 25 November , 2019 by emrezmen

[Guest]

Mate,

 

Many thanks, Interesting

 

I checked Allied sources for the 24th Div around this time and found little.

 

shown April 1918 Allied reports (2300 men 30 Mgs 100 cav) - shown May 1918 Allied reports (2250 men 100 Cav 42 Mgs) 

 

All Allied records for the 8th Corps show;

 

shown April 1918 Allied reports (48th Div parts 24th Div 2nd Caucusas Cav Bde) - shown May 1918 Allied reports (Comp Div 24th Div 48th Div 3rd Cav Div + 2nd Cau Cav Bde) 

 

So your details adds to the knownage here.

 

Intersting that German records show casualties from the 4th Company not the 1st and 3rd Companies?

 

The German 2nd MG Company was one of three MG Companies in that Regt (numbered 1 to 3 ) 

 

possibly some were attached to the 1Bn for the defences here?

 

Emrez, can you translate this two pages, as Iam unsure I am doing it correctly?

 

Like

 

32 A 2 Tabor

 

Possibly 2Bn/32nd FAR (8x 75mm) which I have around there at that time?

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited 26 November , 2019 by stevebecker

[emrezmen]

On 26/11/2019 at 03:11, stevebecker said:

Mate,

 

Many thanks, Interesting

 

I checked Allied sources for the 24th Div around this time and found little.

 

shown April 1918 Allied reports (2300 men 30 Mgs 100 cav) - shown May 1918 Allied reports (2250 men 100 Cav 42 Mgs) 

 

All Allied records for the 8th Corps show;

 

shown April 1918 Allied reports (48th Div parts 24th Div 2nd Caucusas Cav Bde) - shown May 1918 Allied reports (Comp Div 24th Div 48th Div 3rd Cav Div + 2nd Cau Cav Bde) 

 

So your details adds to the knownage here.

 

Intersting that German records show casualties from the 4th Company not the 1st and 3rd Companies?

 

The German 2nd MG Company was one of three MG Companies in that Regt (numbered 1 to 3 ) 

 

possibly some were attached to the 1Bn for the defences here?

 

Emrez, can you translate this two pages, as Iam unsure I am doing it correctly?

 

Like

 

32 A 2 Tabor

 

Possibly 2Bn/32nd FAR (8x 75mm) which I have around there at that time?

Cheers

 

S.B

 

Sorry for late reply. Here is the translation:

 

Şarkı Şeria : East of Jordan River

24. P. Firkasi sağ cenah grubu : 24th Infantry Division right flank group

- 143.P.A. : 143rd Infantry Regiment
- 146.A. 1.T. Alman 1, 3. Bölük : 1st and 3rd Coys of 1/146th German Regt
- 205. İs.Bl. ve Hentik (must be Hentling or Heutling) makinalı bölük : 205th Engineer Coy and Hentik(?) machine gun company
- 24.F. İs.Bl. : 24th Division Engineer Coy
- 32.A. 2. Tabur, 58. A. 1. Tbur, 150. A. 1. Tbur : 2/32nd Regt, 1/58th Regt, 1/150th Regt 
- 4/7.A. Topçudan bir takım : A squad from 4th Coy, 7th Artillery Regt
- 24.A. 7.Bl. Cebel bataryası : Mountain battery from 7th Coy, 24th Arty Regt
- 5/7.A. Topçudan bir takım : A squad from 5th Coy, 7th Arty Regt
- 1.T. Hücum : 1st Stormtrooper Bn

 

Şeria Nehri şarkına geçen kuvvetler : Units moved to the east of Jordan River 

- 9. Sv. A. ve 4/9'dan bir takım topçu - ikinci Şeria taarruzundan evvel nehir şarkında : 9th Cavalry Regiment and a squad from 4th Company, 9th Artillery Regt - in the east of the river before the battle

- 205. İs. Bl. Hentlink Alman makinali Bl. (30/4/34 Sabahı) : 205th Engineer Company and Hentling (or Heutling) German machine gun coy

- 11. F. (3/27) ve 48. F. (5/5) süvari bölükleri, bir makinalı bölük (612) (30/4/34/ Sabahı) : Cavalry coys from 11st Division (3/27) and 48th Div. (5/5), a machine gun coy (612th) (on the morning of 30/4/1918)

- 8. Süvari A. ve 146.A. 1.T. Alman 3. Bölük (30/4/34 Akşam) : 8th Cavalry Regiment and 3rd Coy of 1/146th German Regt (on the night of 30/4/1918)

- 143.P.A., 1. Hücum T., 146.A. 1.T. Alman 1. Bölük : 143rd Regt, 1st Stormtrooper Bn and 1st Coy of 1/146th German Regt

- 6.Sv.A. ve süvari 3. Bölük Topçu : 6th Cav. Regt and 3rd Coy of cavalry artillery 

- 24.F. İs.Bl., 2.P.A., 5/7 topçudan bir takım (1/5/34 Öğleye kadar) : 24th Div Eng. Coy., 2nd Regt, a squad from 5th Coy, 7th Arty. Regt (until noon 1/5/1918)

- 24.A. 7, 8.Bl. Topçu bataryaları (1/5/34 Öğleye kadar) : 7th and 8th Batteries from 24th Arty. Regt (until noon 1/5/1918)

- 32.A. 2. Tabur (2/4/34 Akşamında) : 1/32nd Regt (on the night of 2/4/1918 or should it be 2/5/1918?)

- 58.A. 1. Tabur, 150.A. 1.T. Piyade (4/5/34) : 1/58th Regt, 1/150th Regt (4/5/1918)

 

Cheers,
Emre

Edited 28 November , 2019 by emrezmen

[Guest]

Mate,

 

That makes sence as the 24th Div counter attacked across the Jordan with;

 

 shown orbat at 2nd Es Salt 2nd Regt 143rd Regt + 1Bn/146th Regt 2Bn/32nd Regt 1Bn/58th Regt 1Bn/150th Regt May 1918 (so the 1st and 3rd Companies 1Bn/146th Regt with this attack It looks like the 1Bn/146th may in fact be the German unit not Ottoman as I believed.) 

 

With Eran's map the lone German Co from the 1Bn 146th Regt, must be the 4th Company holding the line with the Ottoman Composite Div, when we attacked across the Jordan.

 

I can find no mention of Germans in the line in fighting by the 60th Div (179 Bde 180 Bde) during this attack while some 73 prisoners and three MGs were given as captured. No Germans are even shown?

 

The Hessian 205th Pnr Co is interesting, as it gets little mention in any accounts in Palestine. I have few men from this unit and the only commanding officer I have is possibly Maj Richard Wirtz. As to the name Hentling (or Heutling) possibly a MG Officer from the 146th Regt, but I did find this officer LtdeR Alfred Theiling 205th Pnr Co. The only one i can find that's close to that name?
 

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited 29 November , 2019 by stevebecker

[Guest]

Mates,

 

Some more checking found this in the British Offical History (Military Operations Egypt and Palestine June 1917-to end of war Part 2) for the German Asia Corps Sept 1918 Appendix 6 page 675.

 

shown  MG Det "Hentig" Asia Corps
 

Now are these the same MG Groups?

 

I do shown two German officers named Hentig;

 

Hentig Hans von    Lt deR    da Genel Kurmay'da görevli (also in charge of the General Staff)    1917-18     (born at Berlin) from 9Co/Grenadier-Regiment 6 shown WIA 9-15 
Hentig Werner Otto von    Lt deR    Mesopotania    1915-    Mesopotania
 

While which one had the MG Group in Sept 1918 is unknown?

 

Cheers

S.B