David Filsell Posted 12 November , 2019 Share Posted 12 November , 2019 (edited) I am just reading a copy of The Zeppelins by Captain Ernest Lehmann & Howard Mingos published in 1927. A fascinating read. It records that a British ship was sunk by a Zeppelin. I can find no record of such an event , can any forumistas confirm, deny or add any details please Regards David Edited 12 November , 2019 by David Filsell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 12 November , 2019 Share Posted 12 November , 2019 Hi David Somewhere I read that Zeppelin Z28 (L5), appeared overhead towards the end of the Battle of Dogger Bank (Jan 1915). l will endeavour to find out where I saw it written. It is totally plausible, in this case, as most of its operational life was spent on North Sea reconnaissance. As regards to sinking a ship, I’m sure there would be some written evidence, and plenty of eye-witness accounts. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 12 November , 2019 Share Posted 12 November , 2019 7 minutes ago, Knotty said: Hi David Somewhere I read that Zeppelin Z28 (L5), appeared overhead towards the end of the Battle of Dogger Bank (Jan 1915). l will endeavour to find out where I saw it written. It is totally plausible, in this case, as most of its operational life was spent on North Sea reconnaissance. As regards to sinking a ship, I’m sure there would be some written evidence, and plenty of eye-witness accounts. John I think the incident is well-known - it attacked the sinking armoured cruiser SMS Blucher, mistaking it for a British batllecruiser due to its tripod masts, but the main effect was to interrupt British rescue attempts of her crew. I think you'd find a reference to it in any but the sketchiest account of the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 12 November , 2019 Share Posted 12 November , 2019 Thanks MikB The naval side of the war is something I am unsure of, as I said I could remember seeing it written down but not sure of the source. Can you help out with David’s query then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 12 November , 2019 Share Posted 12 November , 2019 2 hours ago, Knotty said: Thanks MikB The naval side of the war is something I am unsure of, as I said I could remember seeing it written down but not sure of the source. Can you help out with David’s query then? Not with real certainty. I don't believe it likely that an airship could bomb accurately from a safe height (for them), nor that it had lifting capability for enough bombs for multiple serious attempts - and I don't think I've heard of any such success. I think if one had occurred it would be famous enough to appear in any account of the zeppelin war. But I may stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 12 November , 2019 Share Posted 12 November , 2019 (edited) I've just checked and found that the bombing story by zeppelin L5 at Dogger Bank is not correct - it was a German seaplane that made the identification error and dropped bombs shortly afterwards. Apologies for that. I was remembering a contemporary account ('Sea Fights of The Great War') that attributed the bombs to the zeppelin. Edited 12 November , 2019 by MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 12 November , 2019 Share Posted 12 November , 2019 So what I think I read ( It could well have been “Sea Fights of the Great War) was in fact incorrect.....I was in fact perpetuating a myth🤣 Sorry David,Thanks MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 13 November , 2019 Share Posted 13 November , 2019 (edited) Easy to conflate incidents that were nearly simultaneous in a busy battle. Even some accounts that mention the seaplane also *suggest* that the zeppelin also attacked, but don't say with what. I'm inclined to go with Massey in 'Castles Of Steel', who reports one of the zeppelin's officers as saying they didn't bomb, because the cloud layer was low enough for them to be sure of getting shot down if they descended below it. Edited 13 November , 2019 by MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 13 November , 2019 Share Posted 13 November , 2019 I believe the ship being referenced is the Franz Fischer of 957 grt commonly listed as being bombed and sunk by a Zeppelin on February 1, 1916 off the Kentish Knock LV. Recent research, however, has established that the steamer had in fact been torpedoed by the German submarine UB 17. Link: https://uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/7399.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 13 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2019 (edited) Thank you all. I feel therefore I would be correct in claiming a 'not proven'. Overall it is a fascinating book but very, very, poorly edited. I get the feeling that Captain Ernst A Lehmann probably dictated his story to Howard Mingus in the US and his words were transcribed and only very hastily edited when typed up. Although the most senior officer on board when the Hindenburg disaster took place on 6th of May 1937 Lehmann was not commanding craft. He died The day after the disaster from burns convinced the airship was sabotaged. Regards David Edited 14 November , 2019 by David Filsell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 15 November , 2019 Share Posted 15 November , 2019 On 13/11/2019 at 18:39, Michael Lowrey said: I believe the ship being referenced is the Franz Fischer of 957 grt commonly listed as being bombed and sunk by a Zeppelin on February 1, 1916 off the Kentish Knock LV. Recent research, however, has established that the steamer had in fact been torpedoed by the German submarine UB 17. Link: https://uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/7399.html What nationality was the Franz Fischer as she sounds German . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 15 November , 2019 Share Posted 15 November , 2019 13 minutes ago, nils d said: What nationality was the Franz Fischer as she sounds German . When lost, British. She was built in 1881 by Irvine & Co., West Hartlepool for Hardy, Wilson & Co., West Hartlepool as Rocklands but sold to Gebr. Petersen, Flensburg in 1896. In 1913, F. W. Fischer, Rostock acquired the old steamer and renamed her Franz Fischer. She was seized at Shearness in August 1914 and became an Admiralty requisition with Everett & Newbigin serving as managers. The name wasn't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 15 November , 2019 Share Posted 15 November , 2019 3 minutes ago, Michael Lowrey said: When lost, British. She was built in 1881 by Irvine & Co., West Hartlepool for Hardy, Wilson & Co., West Hartlepool as Rocklands but sold to Gebr. Petersen, Flensburg in 1896. In 1913, F. W. Fischer, Rostock acquired the old steamer and renamed her Franz Fischer. She was seized at Shearness in August 1914 and became an Admiralty requisition with Everett & Newbigin serving as managers. The name wasn't changed. Michael, thanks for the prompt and detailed reply. Personally , l wouldve changed the name ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 17 November , 2019 Share Posted 17 November , 2019 Note Lehmann's book is not very accurate. He DID NOT bomb Grand Duke Nicholas N train! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 18 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2019 Noted, thank you. Certainly, like most wartime accounts written post event, his book contains some 'beliefs, i.e. Not deliberate 'over claiming' which are erroneous - but I think he notes that the raid failed because the train was not where expected. Equally there seems to be no proof for the statement that a Zepp. sank a Briish ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspern Posted 23 November , 2019 Share Posted 23 November , 2019 Hi David What page in the book is the reference to sinking the British ship? regards ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 April , 2021 Share Posted 20 April , 2021 Re: S.S. Franz Fischer. Very surprised and interested to come across all this information while browsing. My maternal grandfather, Harry Patterson, went down with this ship. I have the survivor's story so always thought the cause was the zeppelin but I could never resolve the idea of zeppelins dropping bombs. I felt the mine story was credible but this is first time I heard the submarine theory . Incidentally, Grandpa was born to German parents in Montrose, Scotland.(??)so understandably changed his very Germanic name. Cheers, everyone, you've made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 21 April , 2021 Share Posted 21 April , 2021 I had a look at the Royal Navy's official history, the Naval Staff Monograph (Vol. 15, p. 65). It also concludes that Franz Fischer was torpedoed by UB 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 April , 2021 Share Posted 21 April , 2021 3 hours ago, Michael Lowrey said: I had a look at the Royal Navy's official history, the Naval Staff Monograph (Vol. 15, p. 65). It also concludes that Franz Fischer was torpedoed by UB 17. thank you so much for your prompt answer , with more research to follow up and information to add to the file. regards, shirmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 4 May , 2021 Share Posted 4 May , 2021 There are a few newspaper reports in Findmypast's British Newspaper Archive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 4 May , 2021 Share Posted 4 May , 2021 On 21/04/2021 at 09:39, shirmac said: Re: S.S. Franz Fischer. Very surprised and interested to come across all this information while browsing. My maternal grandfather, Harry Patterson, went down with this ship. I have the survivor's story so always thought the cause was the zeppelin but I could never resolve the idea of zeppelins dropping bombs. I felt the mine story was credible but this is first time I heard the submarine theory . Incidentally, Grandpa was born to German parents in Montrose, Scotland.(??)so understandably changed his very Germanic name. Cheers, everyone, you've made my day. This may be interesting if you've never seen it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 There was a Thames sailing barge by the name of ‘John Evelyn’ that got hit and set ablaze by an incendiary bomb dropped by a Schütte-Lanz Airship (SL.2) during the night of 7/8th September 1915. The unfortunate vessel was loading cargo alongside Snowden’s Wharf in London’s Millwall Docks. Both the Master & the Mate received extensive burns. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 The John Evelyn was a 57 nrt spritsail built in 1885 in Deptford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 (edited) So about half the size of a Thames sailing barge, (in tonnage terms), thanks for the clarification. MB Edited 5 May , 2021 by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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